The Engine 2 Diet: An Interview With Author Rip Esselstyn

By Jackie Wicks, PEERtrainer Co-Founder

PEERtrainer Note: This is a transcript of an interview we recently did with Rip Esselstyn, who is best known as the author of the "Engine 2 Diet." Rip has a unique perspective as a world class athlete who has demonstrated how a "plant strong" diet can provide the energy and edge needed to compete at that level. Rip is part of a new wave of nutritional leaders who are helping to reshape our core assumptions about the food we eat. This is a book you want in your house, especially if you have people around you who need convincing to make changes.

Jackie: Hi, this is Jackie Wicks founder of PEERtrainer and we're here on our expert series and today I'm really excited. I want to welcome Rip Esselstyn. You might have seen his Engine Two Diet books at Whole Foods but here's a little bit about him. He's a collegiate all American swimmer, graduated from the University of Texas at Austin and began his 11 year career as a professional triathlete competing all around the world with Dave Scott and Mark Allen.

Upon retiring from the world of professional sports he joined the Austin Fire Department where he served for eight years at station two, obviously where the engine two comes in. And after helping a lot of firefighter colleagues really dramatically changed their health through the adoption of plant based diet.

He wrote the Engine Two Diet and it was published in the Spring of 2009 and he retired from the fire department in the Fall of 2009 after being recruited by John Mackey who is the CEO of Whole Foods. He joined Whole Foods in launching a global healthy eating initiative and he served with Whole Foods health ambassador traveling all around the globe educating, motivating customers and employees about the extraordinary benefits of what he calls a plant strong diet. He also leads intensive healthy eating immersion retreats.

I'm sure those are fun with Fortune 500 companies helping them to significantly reduce their health insurance cost. He addresses the eating and lifestyle habits of their sickest employees which obviously is where most of the dollars are going for health care. So Rip, welcome.

Rip: Thank you very much, Jackie. Great to be here.

Jackie: It's great to have you and I'm just going to dive right in because there were so many questions that people had. And the first one is the word vegan and the imagining of the lifestyle that goes with it. For lack of better words, smelly health food stores has come a long way with the introduction of people like you, Whole Foods. Why is the vegan approach, especially the plant strong lifestyle you were saying, necessary for weight loss, health, and really energy because that's really what we all want?


Rip: Well, great question. Let me start by saying I don't use the term vegan or vegetarian to describe my philosophy. I use the term "plant strong." I think it's a more accurate descriptor and I find that the term vegan has a potential to be very divisive and polarizing.

A lot of people are vegans for ideological reasons and I think that's absolutely fantastic and wonderful but sometimes it has a tendency to not to be quite as inclusive. So, the thing about being Engine Two plant strong, I'm just trying to get people to eat more plants, more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts, and seeds. And then you decide where you want to fall on that plant strong continuum.

If you want to be 50 percent, 75, 90, or a 100 and the door is always open and the light is always on for you. (Our emphasis!)

Jackie: Why would you say that plant strong lifestyle is necessary for weight loss, health, and really energy? That's been the biggest thing that we hear people, "I don't have the energy, I'm always tired."

Rip: Well, here's the thing. If people are transitioning off the standard American diet then initially probably for somewhere between probably a week or three weeks they're going to have to feel worse a lot of times before they feel better.

They're going to be detoxing, they're going to be going through withdrawals. Just like you would if you were weaning yourself off caffeine. You're grumpy, you're irritable. You may be fatigued. Imagine in fell swoop you're kicking a lot of processed sugars, the animal fat, the animal protein, all the dairy, your body is going to go through some withdrawals.

Now that being said, let's say you're doing everything right and then after three weeks, four weeks you still don't feel like you have the proper amount of energy, it's probably because you're not consuming enough calories, and that's actually a wonderful thing about eating this way.

You have to take in a much higher volume of food in order to get the same amount of calories because plant... the caloric density of plants for the most part is so much less than animal products and processed foods. Now the exception to that would be nuts and seeds and avocados and olives, so there you go.


Jackie: And we've seen a lot of people open to changing to a plant strong lifestyle. For many people it feels like a big fundamental change and it's over whelming. What suggestions do you have to make that shift?

Rip: Well, that's exactly why my call to action is to take the 28 day challenge. Don't necessarily commit to this for a life time. Just try this for 28 days. 28 days immerse yourself in plant strong and this plant strong lifestyle. Then after the 28 days then you decide how plant strong you want to be. What I have found is that if you just decide to do it, oh, I'll dabble in this and I'll cut out red meat, and I'll cut out processed refined foods. I'll stop drinking soda pops and Diet Cokes.

If you just do those incremental changes you don't get the transformational results, right? Then you don't have an amazing amount of energy, your sleep doesn't change, your gastrointestinal tract you're still constipated, you're not losing the weight, your cholesterol not coming down, you still have acid reflux, irritable bowel syndrome, you name it. So, I'm like listen, do you want incremental results or do you want transformational results?

If you want transformational, then jump in and do it, whole kale. Do it whole kale, not whole hog, whole kale. And after 28 days it will not seem overwhelming at all. It will just feel like it's second nature, it'll be easy. What's the best way to learn a foreign language, right? Is to jump into that culture and just friggin' do it, and it's the same thing with this. So, it may seem overwhelming but once you decide, D E C I D E, once you decide that you're going to do the 28 days it's easy. Just don't get hung up on making that decision.

Jackie: Yeah. And decide, you're cutting the root of the word decide. Like suicide, homicide, "cide" means to cut off all other possibilities. You make the decision in that and you do jump in. It's interesting, a lot of times people come up with excuses and the excuses might not even be really what they think, but it's almost you're automatic.

We often hear, "It's so expensive to eat in a healthy way. I would do it but I don't have the money." What tips or strategies do you have for maybe helping people to be able to afford it or even maybe sometimes realize deep down, "Do I have the money to buy some vegetables on sale?" Cabbage is so cost effective or is this an excuse? You know what I mean?


Eating Healthy Can Be Super Cheap!


Rip: Yeah, absolutely. I would tell you this has the potential to be the cheapest way to eat on the planet. How expensive are grains? How expensive are beans? How expensive is frozen fruit, frozen vegetables? If you're shopping at Whole Foods you can get a lot of these things in bulk and you don't have to get everything from the fresh organic sections. It's nice if you can afford that, but if you're on a tight budget know that you can get all the vitamins, all the minerals, all the nutrients and you won't be necessarily sacrificing anything by doing frozen fruits, vegetables, and things of that nature.

I actually recently just to dispel the whole paycheck myth, I came up with a 28 day affordable eating menu where you're buying everything at Whole Foods. It's $320.00 for the month. It's all Engine Two recipes breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And it comes out to basically it is for two people so it comes out to $5.00 a day. $5.00 a day!

Jackie: Wow! Really!

Rip: So, I don't care who you are, that's cheaper than if you go to McDonalds or Burger King, you're going to be spending probably $6.00 to $7.00 on a meal.

Jackie: Is that menu... Is it a part of your book? Can you buy it along with what's in it?

Rip: It's not a part of my book but I will be putting it up here on my website here in about a week and a half to two weeks. Another option is a great buddy and friend of mine that I work with these immersion programs, his name is Jeff Novick. He's a rock star nutritionist and he used to run the Pritikin program. He has, if you go to his Facebook page Jeff Novick, N O V I C K, he has got a Jeff's cheap and easy meals where you can eat for $3.00 a day. $3.00 a day! I think he's got 10 different meal plans.

So anyway, you can do it. You have to be given the resources and the tools and then you can figure it out. Then the other thing is most people spend 10 percent of their income on food and another 18 percent on health care costs. Let's just say worse case scenario you have to spend more eating this way.

So, instead of spending 10 percent, you spend 15 percent, but now your health care cost over the year come down. Let's say instead of 18 percent they're 10 percent, so now you're total instead of spending 28 percent on food and health care you're spending 25 percent.

And in short term, I truly believe this is the cheapest way to eat and then also long term it's by far the cheapest way to eat. You're avoiding the heart disease and the cancer and the type two diabetes and the obesity and all the other nasty things that go along with the standard American diet.

Jackie:  Which leads me to my next question. When ever people think about eating a plant...

Rip: And I need to say this, too. That people, you need to know that your number one asset is your health. Once you truly believe that, you're going to guard it with your life. You know what... and I don't believe it costs more, but even if it did, it's worth it.

Jackie: Right. Right. A bean chili with spinach and salsa, that can really fill you up. A can of beans, if you're not used to even making the bulk beans, a can of organic beans is $1.29.

Rip: Oh yeah, yeah. And like, let's say, just for example, let's say you make the three bean chili that's in my book and then you have it. And then, the next day what you do is you have it on a... You make some pasta and you throw in some pasta with it and you also chop up some kale. And then, the next day you have it over some brown rice and some Swiss chard. And then, the next day you have it over some quinoa with some escarole. There's just ways to use your leftovers creatively and in a cost effective way.

Jackie: Absolutely. So I'm saying, whenever people think of the plant strong diet, the first questions are usually, how am I going to get my calcium? How am I going to get my protein? Where is the real food? In your book you talk about elite athletes using this approach. Can you really build muscle and function at a world class level on a plant strong diet?

Rip: Well, Jackie, I'm here to tell you that if you're looking to give yourself the edge as an athlete, just as a person, then I recommend eating plant strong. It's the one thing that I felt gave me a leg up on the competition as far as recovery, as far as actually game day performance because you're giving yourself, basically, the cleanest premium fuel that's out there. What people need to realize is that meat and all animal based products they're just, and pardon the pun here, they're mediocre at best, at best. And so...


Rip: They're just mediocre third class foods, right? Basically, if you want to go to the mother source, the mother source of vitamins, of minerals, for protein, the essential amino acids, you want to go straight to plants because, basically, like the lion gets his protein from the antelope which gets it from the grass and the greens. And so, the lion's getting a recycled form of animal protein from the plants. So, just go right to the mother source. Meat is missing all kinds of stuff. That's the thing that people don't realize. It has no carbohydrates. Our primary fuels as human beings are carbohydrates. Our brains run off glucose. Our brains basically burn 500 calories of glucose a day, and meat also doesn't have water. It doesn't have fiber. It's missing about three vitamins. It has no phytochemicals. So, meat is missing all kinds of stuff.

And then, the protein that it has is an acidic forming type of protein that has such a high biological value that it turns on cancers and tumors. It is an incredible inflammatory agent, so it inflames everything in the body, and it leaches calcium from the bones because it has such a high acidic kind of level in the body. And our bodies don't like being in that acid state that it cannibalizes your bones of the calcium which is a great alkalizing agent in order to buffer that acid load.

So from a protein perspective, your best source of dietary protein comes from plants. It's the mother source. Your best source of absorbable or retainable calcium comes from plants. Think about it. Where does the cow get his calcium from? He gets it from the greens.

Jackie: Right.

Rip: And then, we're trying to get our calcium from a cow, but it comes in a package that's got all kinds of garbage in it. You've got the animal protein. You've got the animal cholesterol, and you've also got the animal fat, saturated fat. If you want a first class, absolutely superior food, go to plants. Plants are bad asses. Look at... They resist the sun and the rain and the sleet and the weather and the hot and the cold. They're the mother source. They're the greatest. They're the best.

Jackie: Also, what strikes me is that I see many people. I said in my question you're talking about elite athletes, but you are an elite athlete, and you're saying this. This is from personal experience. This isn't just guiding people or being a coach. This is also your personal experience.

Rip: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, totally. I started eating this way back in 1987, and I did it for two reasons. I did it firstly because of my dad's groundbreaking research to show that you can not only halt but you can reverse heart disease by eating a plant based diet. He's done this over and over and over again and has the angiographic proof to show it.

And most recently, President Clinton, the former fast food president, credited my father as being the inspiration for him going plant based to reverse his heart disease. People may not know, but he's had a bypass several years ago. When you have a bypass, they basically take a vein from your leg and then they graft it around your blockage. And what people don't know, it's 47 percent of the time, 47 percent of the time that vein, basically, fails and it goes down within 18 months.

So almost 50 percent of the time it doesn't last a year and a half. It's just a stopgap measure of treating that little blockage, and what's crazy is that little or that main 90 or 95 percent blockage, they only cause about 10 percent of heart attacks, and 90 percent of heart attacks are caused by these little gel plaques that aren't even detectable on a CT scan or when you do a treadmill stress test.

All the statins that people are taking, 50 million Americans, all the bypasses, all the stents and the angioplasties are doing absolutely nothing to address the basic underlying cause of these diseases which is people are putting the wrong food in their mouths. So, really, the only way to affect change at a cellular and a molecular level is through plants. And so, that's exactly getting back to the point I was making.

That's exactly what President Clinton decided to do, and that's exactly what other Americans should decide to do if they really want to beat cardiovascular disease because if you have it one place, you have it everywhere.

You can't think of the body, especially all of our 65,000 miles of veins, capillaries, and arteries as isolated as, oh, you just have it here. If you have one place, you have it everywhere.

And that's why people get peripheral arterial disease. That's why people get erectile dysfunction, lack of blood flow. That's why people get blockages going up to the brain and whether it's the carotid arteries, so it's this whole big one circulatory system that gets affected. I'm sorry I went off on a major tangent there.


Jackie: No. It's so interesting because a lot of people are not being so direct and saying what you're saying, and it's so important.

Rip: Let me also add, so that being said, especially since I think this is kind of geared towards athletes or people that are performance driven. In getting back to one of your earlier questions, does an athlete know that we have 65,000 miles of vessels that feeds our eyes and our ears and our toes and our liver and all of our organs and our muscles, 65,000? In every one of those vessels there's a lining. It's a silky smooth lining called the endothelium, and this endothelium produces a magic gas called nitric oxide, and the degree to which you're eating fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and beans, those endothelium cells produce nitric oxide in abundance.

And that nitric oxide is responsible for keeping the blood smooth and slippery, for keeping the inside of your vessels like Teflon instead of like Velcro. And also, it allows your vessels to dilate, to open up.

And so, as an athlete what do you want? When that gun goes off and you start exercising, you want all of your vessels to open up, to allow more blood flow to everything that needs blood, right?

But if you're eating the standard American diet, it's inhibiting the production of nitric oxide from your endothelial cells. All of a sudden, those vessels over time they become stiff and they become brittle. And now, you're not getting as much blood flow everywhere. So this is basically the best natural performance enhancer out there, it's basically eating plants.

Jackie: Wow.

Rip: Yeah.

Jackie: Your best energy pill in a sense.

Rip: Your best, absolutely. The first reason for health reasons was my dad because of his research, and he wrote a book called "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" back in 2007.

Jackie: I didn't introduce it. I didn't chat about your dad, but your dad is one of the pillars of this, one of the founders of this whole...

Rip: Yeah. He is. He's a total bad ass, and he's done amazing things in this field. And then, the other guy is Boulder's own, Dave Scott. When I got involved in triathlons in 1987, Dave was a hard core vegetarian and would even wash his cottage cheese to get all the excess fat off of it. And so, because of my dad for health and Dave for performance, I started eating this way in 1987, and it's been now almost 25 years.

Jackie: Wow. I have to ask you for people, because you see so many different kinds of people because we were just talking about performance based living. For people just starting a path to losing weight, how important do you think portion control is? Are people better off doing a structured program, like Weight Watchers, or should they just jump right in? I know you were talking about jumping right in. What's the reality of the situation in terms of how you've seen people actually make the change?


Rip: Yeah. I would say that the most effective way is to jump right in. It's not to count calories or worry about portion control and to basically look at this as a rebirth. Look at this as a rebirth of your palate and learning how to taste real food again, as opposed to food, animal products, dairy, processed refined foods that are just loaded with salt and sugar and fat and basically disguise the real taste of food.

Jackie: Well, your palate changes. Your palate actually changes. I actually can taste sugar in a normal piece of bread.

Rip: Yeah.

Jackie: It tastes sweet.

Rip: Stuff is too sweet now. Stuff is over salted, like it's crazy. And then, when you have something that's just got... For example, if I go to a restaurant and I get something that's got oil in it... And that's another thing that we should talk about here before we hang up is processed and refined oils, but if it's got oil in it, it just tastes like synthetic goo. It's just disguising the true essence and flavor of the food.

So I would say look at this as a rebirth to getting back your palette, getting back your true appetite. One of the great things about eating plant based foods is there's no fiber in any animal based foods, right? So no cheese, no yogurt, no milk, no chicken, fish--anything like that, no fiber.

In meat you basically have either protein or fat. And chicken for example, the leanest piece of chicken is 20 percent fat, and a third of that fat is coming from saturated fat. But God, once again it's so easy just to get off track here. But...

Jackie: I know. It's all so interesting. We got here talking about portion control.

Rip: Yeah. So you want to learn to take back your natural appetite. When you're eating plants and you're getting water, fiber, bulk, roughage, vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, and antioxidants, basically all those things go in your stomach. They hit your stretch receptors, your density receptors.

You're so satisfied but you don't feel like you have a cement ball in your stomach. So you're satisfied but you don't go into this state of food coma. So I want people to get away from counting calories and portion control because I don't think that long term it's sustainable or permanent or the smartest way to eat. If you can learn to do this, and it's going to be a journey, right? I mean you're going to have to learn, OK, I need to back off on having that many handfuls of nuts. I mean really one handful of nuts is 200 calories.


Jackie: I remember. Yeah, [laughs] I remember when I thought they were unlimited when I started.

Rip: Yeah, so I tell...

Jackie: I would have six handfulls!

Rip: So I say, you know, listen. If you're an athlete in training, then you might be OK having two or three or four handfuls of nuts...


Jackie: Exactly.

Rip: ...but if you're trying to lose weight, then you want to cut that off at a handful. And you may not even want to do that. You may want to save nuts for making a cashew or an almond sauce for your kale.

Jackie: Sure, yeah.

Rip: Right? And limiting that. But it's the same thing with cashew butter or almond butter or things like that. Same thing with avocados. So I want people to do the 28 day challenge and then look at this as a step towards discovery and a journey of how to nourish yourself. How much food can you take in and still lose weight? And what foods actually cause you to either not lose weight or maybe gain a little bit of weight? Because it's easy to do it if you're having three or four avocados a day, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, 10 handfuls of nuts. You're just substituting plant fats for animal fats, right?

Jackie: Yes.

Rip: Before we go onto the next point, I just want to reiterate. I think that the most probably sustainable and permanent way to do this, because I want people to do it for 28 days but ultimately the goal is to get them to do it for a lifetime, is to do it without the calorie counting or the portion control. But people know their personalities and what works, but that's what I have found tends to work the best long term.

Jackie: Well, because you've observed that, it's probably the best advice. Even though you do have to customize it and I'm always saying, "Do what works for you." I mean if you've seen this work, it's good to know, OK, this has worked before when you...

Rip: Right, and one of the things that I think for people that have done Weight Watchers and stuff like that, they really want to know, "My God! Well, how many calories am I taking in?" So I think that's a fine exercise then just doing plants. Fine. Calculate it out. Figure out what you're having for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks. And usually after about two weeks of that, they're so comfortable. They realize, "OK, you know what? I can do this and I don't have to count calories. I don't have to worry about portions" because now they have a pretty good grasp of what everything is.

Jackie: Yes, and that makes them more comfortable.

Rip: Yes, yeah.

Jackie: Now I have to ask you this because people ask me this a lot. What is the best plant based snack for a triathlete when they're in the middle of their workout? For example, during a half marathon run. Or really for races and when you're doing things that are long distance, and most people are recommending bars. What would you say?

Rip: Well, again, that's kind of a tough question because it's very personal.

Jackie: OK.

Rip: I know that I, even in a race not an Olympic distance race but like either a half iron man or an iron man--I could do bananas. I could do figs. I could do dates. But some people, their stomachs don't like to do that. If you're racing hard, you don't want to be taking in food, per se. You want to be taking in more of either just water if it's two hours or less or some sort of an energy drink. Hammer Nutrition makes some pretty clean plant based drinks like their Perpetuem.

That comes in a couple different flavors. Listen. If you're working out and you're doing a half marathon run, I would get a clean energy gel. Or if your body can handle it, just food. But I know bananas and things like that or new potatoes aren't necessarily the easiest thing to carry, especially on a run. Now on a bike if you're doing a 100 mile ride in training, take new potatoes. Take bananas. Take fruit. Take...

Jackie: That's very helpful.

Rip: ...some energy bars that work for you.

Jackie: Then I have to ask you this because I've received tons of emails of people that say, "I've switched to this plant strong way of living. I don't have the energy to work out." And I think you mentioned maybe they're not taking in enough calories, which you mentioned earlier.

Rip: Yeah. A lot of times if you can watch your weight, your weight will help dictate if you're not taking in enough calories if you're losing too much weight. Now typically what happens is, if you're already an athlete and you're relatively lean, you may lose an additional maybe five to 12 pounds. But you don't want to lose much more than two to three pounds a week. Then you'll reach a place of homeostasis, where your body wants to be.

Once you find that, your natural appetite, you'll just eat according to the output you've done that day. And your body will know, "OK, I need more calories today" or "You know what? I didn't work out as much today. I don't need as many calories." It's really a fantastic. What's the word I'm looking for? Maybe like just synergy when you're that in tune with your body when...

Jackie: How long does that take? I call it equilibrium, or maybe I've gotten that from somebody else.

Rip: Yeah, it's cool. Well... [laughs]

Jackie: I know how long it took for me. I mean I know it's a personal thing, but I'm just curious what you...

Rip: How long did it take for you?

Jackie: It took until I really felt that I was in equilibrium, and I had flooded my body with nutrients. You know, really went whole heartedly. I think it could have taken two years until I didn't feel really hungry anymore at night. OK, so did it really take maybe three months after I really flooded it? Sure, but I didn't even start doing what we've even heard called "green feast." I didn't even start doing that, and until I started really stepping that up to the Nth, then it took three months. But I think it took me more of a two year process to get there.

Rip: Yeah. Well, you know what? I've been doing it for 25 years now. And know that I'm a student of this, too, so I'm constantly learning and adapting and tweaking. It's a journey for me, too. So it's individual. I mean I would imagine some people can do it in a matter of months, but it's something that you're constantly perfecting.

What To Do If Whole Foods "Intimidates" You

Jackie: Yes. Yes. And I know you have a time thing. Finally, I wanted to ask this final question. I hear from so many people that they'd love to shop at Whole Foods, but they're intimidated, overwhelmed, by all the new things, choices. I have to even say even I, at the beginning, would tense up when my husband who wanted to go to Whole Foods everyday when he suggested it because I [laughs] felt so overwhelmed. What advice do you have for getting over this at the beginning of the process? Because it did. It took me a couple years to get [laughs] over it.

Rip: Yeah, I've got a great, great idea for you. So what Whole Foods has done is starting last year they started their healthy eating initiative. They made it their seventh core value. They haven't added a core value in a number of years, and I think they only had six for maybe the first 20 years. Then in the last 10 years they're now 30 years old they've added two. And the most recent one is to promote health to team members, customers, and communities through healthy eating education. So what they have done is every store, and a lot of stores have them now but over the next six months will have what's called a "healthy eating specialist" in it. A healthy eating specialist.

Rip: And they basically are there to help customers with how to shop, what to buy, recipes. They have all kinds of great material that they can hand out to you. So I think the easiest thing to answer your question about being overwhelmed when you walk into Whole Foods is immediately walk in and ask to speak with the health eating specialist and get a tour or sign up for an appointment. It will totally alleviate any of those feelings of being overwhelmed.

Jackie: You can sign up for an appointment?

Rip: Absolutely! And it's completely free! Completely free! Yup.

Jackie: I did not know that.

Rip: Yup.

Jackie: Because what happens is that I'm over in the vegetable section, and almost every single time someone next to me will say, "What is that that you're buying, and how do I cut that? How do I use that?" I get it when I'm picking up ginger and really anything. So it's so fantastic to know these people could make an appointment and learn all of this.

Rip: And another thing that's going on Dani Little, who is the healthy eating specialist at the Pearl Street store, (our local Whole Foods store) just recently ran an Engine Two 28 day challenge. She had 225 people that signed up to take it, and I don't know if you're aware of that. But you...

Jackie: Wow! I was shopping, and I think I remember seeing one of the classes and it was packed.

Rip: Yeah, and they're going to be doing several of those every year. So I would encourage your listeners. If they're interested in taking the Engine Two 28 day challenge and they want to do it in a structured environment with support and if they want to have the option of doing before and after bio markers from weight, blood pressure, total cholesterol, LDL, triglycerides, all that to inquire with Dani Little at the Pearl store. I tell you what. It's a great step to make to taking your health to the next level.

Jackie: That's great. It's been fantastic to be able to talk to you, and thank you so much for providing such thoughtful answers. I'd love to have a follow up with you because I'm sure that we will have lots of questions. We always do.

Rip: Yes. Well, if you want to do a follow up sometime, just let me know because I'd love to go tell you how I eat, how I make it happen in my life, and give you some other tips and suggestions. It's been a lot of fun, Jackie. Thanks a lot.








PEERtrainer Note: This is another great book to have in your home that will serve as a great reference. We are strong advocates of building a "health library" in your home. The more access to information and ideas you have, the better!

The Engine 2 Diet (Link To Purchase Book On Amazon)

Related Books and Resources:

Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease By Caldwell Esselstyn, MD

Eat To Live By Joel Fuhrman MD (2011 Updated Edition)

Dr Joel Fuhrman's Online Member Center (Get answers to questions in real time)

Prevent A Second Heart Attack By Dr. Janet Brill