OT - Bless OUR Country

This is a very good letter to the editor. This woman made some good points.

For some reason, people have difficulty structuring their arguments when arguing against supporting the currently proposed immigration revisions.

This lady made the argument pretty simple.

Newspapers simply won't publish letters to the editor which they either deem politically incorrect (read below) or which does not agree with the philosophy they're pushing on the public. This woman wrote a great letter to the editor that should have been published; but, with your help it will get published via cyberspace!

New Immigrants
From: "David LaBonte"

My wife, Rosemary, wrote a wonderful letter to the editor of the OC Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I decided to "print" it myself by sending it out on the Internet.

Pass it along if you feel so inclined.
Dave LaBonte (signed)

Written in response to a series of letters to the editor in the Orange County Register:

Dear Editor:
So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.

Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home.

They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.

Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan. None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from; they were
Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini, and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the
Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of bei ng faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life.
I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.

And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.

Rosemary LaBonte (signed)

MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA

Wed. Mar 14, 7:46am

Rebuttal

There's a reason this letter shows up on urban legend websites for a year.

Link

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 7:59 AM

Thanks for rebutting.

This is just racist rhetoric. As a child of immigrants, I know my parents worked very hard and considered themselves Americans. They volunteered, and really worked to uphold the American ideal.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 8:04 AM

Oh, and by the way - an omnipotent being that created the *Universe* isn't going to "Take sides".

Get over that idea already. God bless the universe, please.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 8:05 AM

What is the point of this letter? That French and Irish immigrants (aka white immigrants) are okay but Mexican immigrants aren't? I bet if CNN were around when those arriving on Ellis Island "kissed the ground" we would have seen an equal amount of European pride.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 8:11 AM

I think the point is that mexican immigrants tend to not embrace english and not assimilate. Victor Davis Hanson wrote a book about this phenomenon called "Mexifornia."

I personally think the immigration debate has created a witchhunt environment. We need the labor, they need the money to feed their families in Mexico- which is an economic and legal basketcase.

It is important however, to try and not dismiss an arguement by calling it a name. That is a cop out. The idea that all immigrants should be grateful to be here and speak the language is one I happen to agree with.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 8:47 AM

Ellis Island myth vs. reality

I think this letter perpetuates some HUGE myths.

My great-grandparents did come in through Ellis Island. They were lucky; many other Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe were turned away because of quotas. They never felt particularly welcomed, I'm sure. They never learned much English -- they spoke Yiddish at home, and they worked hard at menial jobs with other Yiddish-speaking coworkers and supervisors.

Some of their children went back to the "old country."

What happened was that their other children, my grandparents, had access to American education, health care, etc. They were the ones to learn English and fully assimilate US culture, and they became great contributors.

Letters like this one are written by people who don't understand immigration. Uprooting oneself from one's comfort zone and culture to move to another continent is not something one does for oneself -- it's something people do for their children and grandchildren.

No, adults are probably not going to learn English well. Many have practically no education in their home countries, and they aren't going to magically become doctors and lawyers and geniuses here. The best they can do is put their heads down and work hard, and they will raise hard-working, bilingual, successful kids. This is what they offer to the U.S. -- and this is what the U.S. can offer them.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 8:53 AM

OK, first of all regardless of whether or not this letter is a rumor, I totally agree with its message. This is not putting down legal immigrants in any way, in fact its applauding the long history of legal immigration of our country and saluting those who went about it the legal way. The problem this letter and every other person who is looking for immigration crackdowns is talking about it illegal immigrats, whether they be from Mexico, Europe or any other place. The people who would sneak through the back door of our country, burn our flag upside down while rioting in the streets (which by the way, the people I saw doing this were Mexicans in CA), and steal our tax dollars from a system they are not paying into. Again, I'm not talking about hard working legal immigrants. I have many friends in the brazillian and russian immigrant community who are just as offended by illegal immigrants as I am because it undermines the effort that they made in going about coming here the right way. It frustrates me to no end that when someone I know got in a car accident with an illegal alien who had no car insurance, the cop handling the accident could do nothing about it and my friend took the fall for the cost of the damage. It frustrates me that when I even go on vacation outside the country, I try to learn the basics of the other language so I can get around, but I run into more people every day who have lived here for years but won't even make the effort to learn how to say "hello" in English. Every other civilized nation has immigration control and strict enforcement yet we are the only country that gets pounded for it because of our damned "political correctness" that is slowly killing this country. This is my country, if you immigrated you came here on your own, you are welcome to stay if you do it legally, but do not try to stomp out my America and turn this into the country you came from!

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 9:21 AM

To the 8:53am poster -

From speaking with my grandfather, who was also a Jewish immigrant from Eastern Europe - came here in 1920, at age 13, by essentially walking out of Russia at night, bribing guards, etc., during the Russian Revolution, risking their lives to get here) - many immigrants at that time did learn English, assimilated well, and held good jobs.

When my grandfather arrived here, his family had nothing (used everything they had to get here). At age 13, he became a bicycle messenger to earn money to support his family, and attended some high school classes at night, where he learned English. He worked very hard to eliminate any trace of an accent too (until the very end of his life, when due to alzheimers, he forgot English and reverted to Russian completely). He never graduated from high school, and certainly never attended college, but he worked very hard and eventually opened a children's clothing store in Pittsburgh, where he became so well known that, according to my mom, he was almost like the mayor! Anyone who grew up in Pittsburgh in the 1950's-60's probably knew the store, Newman's, which I understand finally went out of business a few years ago, though my grandfather sold it long ago.

Anyway, just because you arrive here with nothing, and have no education, that does not mean that you cannot be successful. It might not be easy, but why is it supposed to be easy?

I just don't understand the immigrants now who risk their lives to get here (and many still do), but then continue to love their country of origin more than they do the US - if it was so great, why did you want to leave so badly that it was worth risking your life?

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 9:45 AM

I am learning so much from this thread- from both sides. Thanks.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 9:49 AM

8:53 here -- 9:45, you are making my point for me. Your grandfather arrived here when he was 13. There is an enormous difference between arriving with your parents & family at 13, and arriving alone at 20, or arriving as a parent at 30 or 40. The older you are, the harder it is to adjust. And the less support structure you have, the harder it is to "make it" and assimilate if you are the person arriving alone at 20.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 9:55 AM

This letter is racist and unfair. All new immigrants want is equal rights and equal opportunites which many Americans take for granted because they don't need to "prove themselves" to get it . And according to the writer to that idiotic letter that is too much to ask for if you are a new immigrant. Give me a break! What a stupid, stupid stupid offensive topic this is!!!

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 10:22 AM

9:45 - immigrants can come here for work and still love their home country. If Mexico had even the smallest hint of a stable economy then I'm sure there would be many Mexicans who would gladly go back.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 10:24 AM

People need to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants! That's the issue here. The problem is with border hoppers and illegals, not immigrants in general, without whom we would not have an America.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 10:52 AM

What has not been said and what needs to be made perfectly clear over and over again is that the US *needs* all the immigration, legal and illegal, that it can get. Talented professionals and the capital they bring helps the economy grow, the the illegals do work that nobody else will do. We are shooting ourselves in the foot going after them.

Now it would be great if they showed some appreciation and respect for America- but we don't make that a requirement of those on the left and in the Democratic party in this country. For the left, the acquistion of power is a greater goal than allegiance to America and its interests.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 11:03 AM

11:03 I have to disagree. I went to college in a small town where it was VERY difficult for legal American citizens (students) to get jobs as bus boys, dishwashers and cooks in the restaurant industry because there were so many illegal immigrants that did that work. So to say that "nobody" will do the work they do is not true. What about unemployed American citizens? Do you really think they are going to be picky about what job they do? No, many can't get a job because the jobs are given to illegal immigrants.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 11:38 AM

11:03 - I can't believe you would say that people on the left have no respect or appreciation for this country. I find that REALLY offensive. Not only are you making a blanket generalization about half of the citizens in the country, but the statement has no basis in reality. I can have an american flag sticker on my car as well as an impeach Bush sticker on my car. Questioning our leaders is what makes us American.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 11:41 AM

Most are missing the POINT

This thread is about ILLEGAL immigrants ... not immigrants in general.

I received this email yesterday and loved the analogy ... I'm sure it to is not a true story, but yet another urban myth ... but it stil makes a valid point!

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!!! It explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.
She wrote:
Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests. Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, 'I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:
You are Required to let me stay in your house; You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan; You are Required to educate my kids; You are Required to provide other benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part) If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
And what a deal it is for me!!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!! (So you can communicate with me)

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America… if you agree, pass it on (in English). If not blow it off… along with your future Social Security funds, and a lot of other things.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 12:23 PM

I understand the POINT, just fine - you're talking about illegal immigrants. But do you understand that if you are an immigrant and have a high paying job in this country, a place to live, and contribute to society, it can still take YEARS to get citizenship? The people that run across the border have no hope of ever getting citizenship, that's why they do it illegally.

And by the way, illegal immigrants do not recieve social security, welfare, food stamps, free healthcare, or any of the other supposed "freebies" they're getting so can we cut all of the ignoramus accusations?

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 12:35 PM

If an illegal immigrant who just ran across the border, with no money, insurance, etc., gets hurt or sick or pregnant and ends up in the hospital, exactly who do you think will pay?

If they have children, and send them to public schools, who pays? They are not tax-paying citizens, so they are not contributing funds to the public school system.

On Yahoo! News today, there is a story entitled "Undocumented Immigrants' Childbirth is Top Emergency Medicaid Expense." So, yes, illegal immigrants do cost the healthcare system a lot of money!!! Oh, and "undocumented" means illegal. Link below.

Link

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 1:28 PM

To the Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 1:28 PM Poster ...

Thank you for including the link ... mabye the poster above you will read it and realize that my "ignoramus accusations" are nothing but REALITY!!!!
Illegals cost US money everyday!!!!

And to their comment " The people that run across the border have no hope of ever getting citizenship, that's why they do it illegally." Are you serious?? So, if I want something I have no hope of getting should I just take it illegally? Does that make it okay since I have no hope of working and waiting until I can obtain the desired result legally? Please, get real!

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 1:35 PM

As a US citizen I would go to jail if I did not pay my taxes.

Illegal immigrants do not pay taxes.

So, they should be put in jail or better yet sent back to their legal country.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 1:42 PM

11:41 -- if only that were true. I'm not talking about the 26% of the country that calls itself a "democrat"- I am talking about the minority of that group who actively root for US failure and have for YEARS. This did not begin with the Iraq war or Bush. It began when the communists began to infiltrate our political system, and that laid a seed for seditious activity for years to come by a vocal minority.

If you think Bush is an idiot fine. (but you are projecting) But the fact is that many on the left simply put their political agenda above the best interests of the US.

Wednesday, March 14, 2007, 2:01 PM

One thought about the so-called "melting pot" that we all think of when we think of that massive wave of European immigration through Ellis island- The individual ethnic and national groups DIDN'T assimilate quickly- they held on to their old ways and their old beliefs and loyalties.

It was their children that assimilated. That's always been the case, and it's the case today- the first generation immigrants tend to stick to communities filled with their own people- it's a lot less scary for them. Their kids tend to rebel at the thought of staying in these self-made ghettos, and they're the ones who become rabidly pro-american.

My great-grandparents came to northern Indiana from Poland. They lived in very Polish town where there were whole neighborhoods that spoke only polish. To this day, several of the catholic churches in town conduct masses in polish. Their children, my grandparents, were raised speaking english and polish. their children, my mother among them, were forbidden from speaking polish by their parents.

My great grandparents, just as the immigrants today, faced "nativist" attackers who saw them as foreign born, papist and loyal not to America but to their homeland. Read up on the Klan in Indiana at the turn of the century and you'll see a lot of parallels for what immigrants are being charged with today.

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 11:19 AM

I thoroughly support this letter. Speak english, respect our laws, get a job, don't depend on handouts, respect life and each other. If immigrants today would do these simple things, there wouldn't be as much backlash. America has become a society of tolerance. Living in South Texas, I saw many people without social security numbers, "assumed" identities, and no car insurance violate what any "born" American would never do. I saw women having many children (all who were filthy, and looked like they were neglected) all for the increased welfare benefits. I saw Mexicans swerve infront of a nicer car to get the benefit of the other person's insurance - since they had none. I saw an apartment complex evict 20 apartments and put over 200 people on the street. I saw people in Texas get denied jobs because they were not bi-lingual. Should I have to speak another language to work at McDonalds, to support my family who are citizens, so that someone who crossed over in the middle of the night can get welfare and education benefits? In California, Illegal Immigrants are given IN STATE TUITION!

I do not believe I am a racist (def: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races). If you come to America, learn English. I support freedom of religion, as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else (no suicide bombers to support your cause). I believe in free speech (as long as I don't have to subject my child to homosexuality in a public forum). I believe in the right to bear arms (properly registered with a conceal and carry license). If you do not like our laws, our language or have respect for our people and our system, either STAY HOME or GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 12:46 PM

I guess I'm just grateful that none of you people get to make these policy decision. I am appalled by the lack of compassion toward fellow human beings.

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 2:06 PM

No, unfortunately our weak backed politicians are giving into the demands of illegal immigrants to give them the benefits and freedoms that we as citizens pay dearly for. So ultimately its foreigners and illegal criminals who are influencing the law makers of this country instead of its citizens.

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 8:03 PM

Hm, do you think 2:06 is an illegal, or perhaps the child one one? Hm...

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 9:23 PM

2:06 just a liberal

As a kind conservative- The government was never meant to be our "daddy" and take care of us. We the people should take it upon ourselves to defend ourselves and our rights and property. The more people expect the government to take care of them- the more they take away.

Churches and other organizations used to do the humanitarian aid stuff with shelters and generally helping each other etc.... but now with big government daddy coming in...imposing rules and laws, making it more difficult it pushed them out to then make people depend on the very government.
Mexicans and others are coming in for the free ride- of course.

Listen more to Glenn Beck show, radio and Headline News on cable....

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 10:57 PM

I am so, so saddened and disgusted by the ignorant, bigoted and closeminded viewpoints listed on this thread, I almost wish I hadn't opened it. Cheers, 2:06pm, small mercies.
Virago24

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 11:46 PM

It is amazing that you want to claim that it is the "Mexicans and others" who are "coming in for the "free ride" These people are coming into the United States seeking better opportunities for their families. They are not coming here to "free ride". No, we can look to our own fellow natural-born, U.S. citizens to find those who are just out for a free ride.

It is largely immigrants who take on back breaking field labor for below the federal minimum wage - which happens to conveniently not apply to agricultural workers. So next time you're enjoying some low priced U.S. grown produce, you might just want to stop and thank those "Free Riding Mexicans" along with U.S. Government subsidies which make it difficult for prodce from other countries to compete with our chosen crops.

My great grandfather came to the United States from Mexico. He was never lazy or looking for a "free ride". Instead, he worked hard and created a better future for his children, and their children, and eventually me.

Why do you think Canadians aren't flocking over the longest (and largely unsecured) border that the U.S. has?

Because they don't NEED to come here to provide their families with a better future. If the U.S. truly wants to fight illegal immigration then it should follow up on its promises to help Mexico and other Central and South American countries improve their economies; then their citizens wont have to leave their families and their contries in search of a better future.

Thursday, March 15, 2007, 11:53 PM

I am talking about the ones that sneak over the border illegally.. jumping the fence - running across the dessert... finding the holes in the border.
I am angry that our border patrol can do nothing. And this is also letting terrorists through.
Whenever this conversation takes place people always think or claim we are talking about every foreigner that comes over to the United States...then the conversation seems to go back to square one. I welcome every legal Mexican or other nationality. If you have done your paper work I have no problem with you over here working hard.

Friday, March 16, 2007, 6:06 AM

I have no problem with immigrants...as long as the proper channels are followed. I met a lot of good, hard working Mexicans, Indians (from India) and Asians. I have a problem with those who sneak across, or pay a "coyote" to take them across and then have children "Anchor Babies" so they can stay here. That paperwork changes their status from ILLEGAL to LEGAL IMMIGRANT. That's when they get a social security number, pay taxes, and work to support themselves. Do you have any idea how much US money is sent to Mexico to support the families still there? There are actually websites from families in Mexico looking for the people who came to the US and they want them to go back to Mexico. And yes, I agree there are a lot of Americans who just want a free ride. Unfortunately, the only thing that can help that is personal responsibility which no one has anymore. It's a sad and scary world when you have to be constantly aware that someone could sue you for a variety of reasons at any given time.

Friday, March 16, 2007, 7:37 AM

so how many of the americans on this thread are Native Americans? how many americans on this thread had ancestors who brutally raped, pilaged and overtook the Native American lands and tribes? the americans of today are descendants of many cultures around the world, true, but they are also in this country as a direct result of coming here, uninvited by the inhabitants that were already here, and taking over. its the american way. if you are so worried about some sort of take-over of your stolen country, why don't you do something within the laws of this great country to change the current lack of enforement of illegal immigration policies instead of spouting off bigotted, racist comments on this international weight-loss site? pride & prejudice go hand in hand, but courage walks alone.

Friday, March 16, 2007, 8:27 AM

Well put.

I'm really sad about this thread. So much intolerance. So much of us versus them.

America's ascendancy in the world as a super power is not long going to be held. With the global marketplace making billionaires in countries traditionally thought of as poor, these same countries with a much higher standard for educatoin (India, China, etc), we may someday find ourselves hoping for a little understanding and kindness.

Just try to rememeber that we are all brothers and sisters.

Friday, March 16, 2007, 3:20 PM

Communist goals on record - ones relating to illegal immigrants

The communist goals were entered into the Congressional record by Albert Herlong, Jr. (a Floridian who served in Congress from 1949-69).

1) US acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

6) Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

15) Capture one or both of the political parties in the US.

16) Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17) Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism, and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in text books.

18) Gain control of all student newspapers.

19) Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20) Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21) Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22) Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substitute shapeless, awkward, and meaningless forms.

24) Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

29) Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30) Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man".

31) Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture": Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32) Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33) Eliminate all laws or procedures, which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

36) Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37) Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38) Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.

42) Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political, or social problems.

43) Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44) Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45) Repeal the Connally Reservation so the US can not prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

Link

Friday, March 16, 2007, 3:37 PM

3:37 - thanks for the post. Looks like many of their objectives are well in hand. Citizens of Cambridge, Manhattan and Berkeley- We Thank You!!!

Friday, March 16, 2007, 3:50 PM

Am I the only one who thinks it's absolutely ridiculous to debate immigration policies on an F@#$ing weight loss site?

I mean, @#$%ing give me a break. Conservatives, shut the hell up. I know it's somehow comforting for you to wallow in gloom about the state of the world and how great things were back during the cold war (I remember the cold war. I don't miss the nightmares), but honestly, we can't blow up everyone we don't like, and we can't build a wall so high that it can't be circumvented. Diplomacy is not a 4 letter world, and we probably shouldn't piss off the world too much more- eventually, they're going to figure out they can do better with out us.

And Liberals, you've got to shut the @#$% up too. G@# Da@#ned hippies take a lot of credit for a whole bunch of stuff they didn't do in the 60's. You sat around and got high and listened to bad jam bands. all that civil rights stuff was done by people who'd never even heard of a love bead while you were still in grade school writing bad poetry. And there's a lot of people out there who hate us. No amount of "good vibes" or "understanding" is going to make them hate us less. Illigal immigration sucks, no matter how many flowers you try and dress it up with.

Both sides, get over yourselves and your pathetic dogmas. It's time to look at the world without your stupid left/right blinders. Look at the mess both sides have made together. Now fix it.

Friday, March 16, 2007, 9:09 PM

9:09, did you enjoy your tantrum? It sounds like you're saying something of value until you realize it's more blind rhetoric.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 5:23 AM

This is so much more than a weight loss site for me. I love these debates and hearing different perspectives. Nothing like a little heated invective to get your day started right.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 7:30 AM

I am with you 7:30 Am I feel like peer trainer is a circle of friends I can sh are with and nit EAT and not be judged. It is a great weight Loss tool to me in everyway because my being fat is not just about nutrition and discipline I kow tht is a big part of it but not all.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 7:49 AM

plus thinking of the state of the world helps me lose my appeteit and not want to eat...

The liberals want us to shut up and be complacent... so we will lose more and more of our freedoms until there is nothing left... if we do not keep talking the slippery slope down to socialism and communism will become more and more of a reality.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO FOR A LIVING?

BE TOLD HOW TO LIVE? WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T HAVE?

Think about it.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 8:40 AM

More reactionist rhetoric. Stop your crazy hand waving, pick a specific issue and then start to analyze it, giving reasonable critique of how things are currently handled and then propose solutions. Otherwise sstop ranting.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 10:17 AM

I am a liberal and a Democrat. In the spirit of the heading of this post I'd just like to say I am happy as a woman to live in the United States. I'm grateful for the freedoms I have here as a woman. Someday (in the near future) I hope to help elect a woman president.

Saturday, March 17, 2007, 10:30 AM

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