Has The Dairy Industry Brainwashed America?

I'm reading Joel Fuhrman's book "Eat To Live" and I thought I'd share some of what he says about dairy. My health has significantly improved since cutting most of it out and I was determined to find out why. Here are some notes from what I am reading:

Dr Mehmet Oz- "I do not consider milk a real food"
(Dr Oz wrote the foreward to this book btw)

-Most people consider a diet without dairy unhealthy, and are convinced that dairy is the best source of calcium for our bones.

-In fact, hip fractures and osteoporosis are much more common in populations with high dairy comsumption. American women consume 32 times the amount of cows milk as women in New Guinea, but suffer 47 times the number of broken hips

-This does not necessarily suggest drinking milk *causes* osteoporosis, but does call into question the relentless advertising from the dairy industry.

-Studies do prove however, that high levels of fruits and veggies are protective against osteoporosis

-In China, osteoporosis is virtually non-existent, yet Chinese consume less than half the amount of calcium than Americans. The Chinese's primary source of calcium is vegetables.

-A diet heavy in animal proteins is highly acidic, and the body releases calcium from the bones to help neutralize the acid. Refined sugar, caffiene, salt, alcohol also are also highly acidic, resulting in calcium loss. (I read in another book that drinking one Coke has a devastating effect on your body's calcium levels)

-Eskimos have the highest hip fracture rate in the world--their primary protien source comes from fish.

-Bottom line is that the calcium your body takes in from veggies is absorbed at a higher rate, and not excreted- meaning your body retains it.

-The only reason cows milk is considered such an important source of calcium is that the American diet is centered on animal foods, refined grains and sugar- all of which are devoid of calcium

-Green veggies are the best because they have so many nutrients in addition to calcium

Here is Fuhrman's bottom line:

"Dairy is best kept to a minimum. There are many reasons not to consume dairy. For example, there is a strong association between dairy lactose and ischemic heart disease. There is also a clear association between dairy products and cancer. There is also a clear association between milk consumption and testicular cancer. Dairy fat is also loaded with toxins and is the primary source of our nation's high exposure to dioxin....Cheese is also a powerful inducer of acid load, which increases calcium loss further."

Link

Sun. Feb 4, 10:59am

comparing apples and atom bombs

Mostly what the above points out is that calcium is only one thing you need to prevent osteoporosis.

The other thing is weight-bearing exercise, and lots of it. Bone is a living tissue, and it remodels as you place stress on it. Constant remodeling keeps it dense. This is why walking, running, weightlifting, etc. are great types of exercise for preventing osteoporosis, and swimming is not. While one must have calcium available for the remodeling to take place, exercise comes first.

So, it's a bit deceptive to compare, say, the US to China in this regard. On average, Americans are much more sedentary. It would be more instructive were they to compare Chinese to Maasai, or some other group that relies on dairy for protein & calcium in addition to being on average very physically active.

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 1:41 PM

Yeah, that info seems to be geared towards "shock value".

I don't like comparing China to the US because on average, our life expectancy is 8 years longer. Now think about how old most people who break hips are.

And by the way, the RDA takes into account how much of a vitamin or mineral is absorbed v. consumed based on their dietary guidelines. I think we only need 600-700mg calcium a day, but to absorb that much we need to consume 1000mg (sorry I can't cite my source - I learned this at a healthy eating seminar conducted by a nutritionist who was not trying to sell anything).

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 3:38 PM

I think the responders here thus far are proving the doctors point. We are not only trained to accept that dairy is good for us, we are also prepared to reject any suggestion to the contrary. We don't live longer because we eat better, we eat better because we have a vastly superior economy and health system. And as the Chinese get wealthier, they are adopting western eating habits- and gettiing fat.

If you eat the typical American diet with out a critical thought, you'll be fat. If you drink milk, eat typical bread and pasta, and don't eat fruits and veggies, you'll be fat. And even if you keep eating low-fat versions of junk, you'll be struggling to stay thin. The bottom line is that if you eat properly, you will not be able to keep excess weight on.

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 3:46 PM

I completely agree about certain consumer boards/industries brainwashing the public. "Sugar gives you energy." Gimme a break. Sure it does, but so does anything else you put in your mouth (that has calories). Sugar makes you fat - in excess. I don't believe that dairy is bad for you in small amounts, but the whole drink-a-glass-a-day thing is purely the result of marketing.

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 4:44 PM

It's easy to be brainwashed when you're relatively ignorant.

For instance: Eskimos have the highest hip fracture rate in the world--their primary protien source comes from fish.

If the above book cited this factoid as evidence of anything other than vitamin D and calcium deficiency, the authors are taking you for a ride!

The Inuit ("Eskimo" is generally considered a derogatory term.) traditionally lived at high latitudes, don't get a lot of sun half the year, and keep their skin mostly covered the other half. Vitamin D, which is necessary for creating new bone (along with calcium and exercise, as noted) is mostly created by the skin when the skin is exposed to sunlight.

In addition, Inuit children eating traditional diets get only 20 mg of calcium per day, when the RDA for other children is 800 mg. One would wonder how they grow bones at all, except...

As an interesting sideline (see link), one genotype predominant among the Inuit and also in Chinese and Thai people allows more efficient uptake of dietary calcium -- although it seems to work differently in the Inuit -- which just means that some people need a lot less dietary calcium than others.

So it's indeed pretty nonscientific to make those comparisons across populations.

Link

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 5:29 PM

It's pretty amazing what happens when you challenge commonly held views. I cut out dairy many years ago, and then gradually brought things back in like French Cheese, a little cream on pie etc. I eat much healthier overall and made many changes, cutting out dairy etc. I'm convinced it had a very positive effect. Any "whole" food will help you be healtier, period.

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 5:48 PM

This thread is turning into the conspiracy theorists v. the "brainwashed". Oh fun fun!

I'm still waiting to hear from the anti-dairy member who loves to bang on about how "cow's milk is for baby cows"....

Sunday, February 4, 2007, 8:19 PM

Re: the Chinese, there's a lot of calcium in tofu, as well. I'm not sure if every kind of tofu has a lot of it and am too lazy to check right now, but the traditional kind is made with nigari, which, although I can't remember what that is, has a lot of calcium in it.

Monday, February 5, 2007, 10:34 AM

Dr. Fuhrman was citing this example from the "China Study." The China study did compare office workers in China vs. office workers in the US so they did try to match up activity levels. It's a fascinating book that I'd highly recommend no matter what side of the fence you are on. I switched from being vegetarian to vegan after reading it. I read Dr. Furhman afterwards.

I've done my research, compared theories but that means nothing when it comes down to how I feel. Since I stopped eating dairy no morning breath, no stomach pains, no colds, less allergy problems..I can go on. I'm not saying it's for everyone but for me, it's been an amazing change of health since I gave up dairy.

I am vegan and I do believe that cow's milk is for baby cows but I'm not going to shove that in anyone's face. Choice is a personal matter. What's right for me might not be for you. I don't really care about being right, I just want to be healthy and do what I know is the right choice for me.

There's a team for McDougall/Eat to Live folks if anyone is curious and wants to join.

Monday, February 5, 2007, 10:45 AM

If you consider the Inuit and Caucasian statistics and compare them to New Guinea, one thing can easily be concluded: sunlight vs. lack of sunlight. Vitamin D plays a huge role in calcium absorption.

If you are worried about not getting enough calcium, turn to green leafy veggies and exercise. If you can, go outside for at least 30 minutes to get your vitamin D - it'll probably cheer you up, too!

But to each their own. If you're worried about dairy, give it up for a week or so and see how you feel.

Monday, February 5, 2007, 11:41 AM

and how did the people in the China study get to work? they probably rode a bike! (going back to the idea that exercise is important for healthy bones, not just what you eat.)

Monday, February 5, 2007, 1:45 PM

I read the China Study and found it a fascinating book. I recently turned into a vegetarian ( November 2006) since then I have gotten stronger, lost weight safely and have increased my energy. It is my opinion that the meat and dairy industries are out for your money and not your health. Beware of advertising.

Monday, February 5, 2007, 6:14 PM

I read some where once a while back that people that are lactose and tolerant, is the highest of all in relation to food allergies, even though it is not really an allergy. Dairy is from cows or other bovine that have the stomachs to digest it, we don't. Lets not forget that most cows are pumped full of hormones to cause them to produce more milk, safest way is really to switch to soy milk if you still want cereal. But that is just my opinion and from personal experience, after I cut out all dairy from my diet, I felt a lot better.

Sunday, November 25, 2007, 12:37 AM

12:37-- Trader Joe's, for example, their dairy products are from cows that are not injected with hormones.

Personally, I need to cut down on my diary intake, particularly cheese because it is high in saturated fat and stick to milk and yogurt for my calcium needs. I'm not sure what to think about this diary issue.

Sunday, November 25, 2007, 12:44 AM

For 5 years now I haven't touched regular dairy. I do only organic dairy free from hormones and all the other crap the dairy farmers raise the cows on and I don't eat red meat. I do do organic goat and sheep cheese as well but not milk. I have noticed a difference in how I feel. I don't know if it is all in my head or if I really feel better but I don't like all the crap that pumped into the cows. I have a little conspricy theory going on. My kid is almost 4 and now we only eat organic stuff.

Sunday, November 25, 2007, 10:54 AM

goat's milk!

One of the things I have heard over and over about why milk and cheese from cows is hard on human bodies is because cows are much bigger animals than us, hence the milk is made for large animals, not medium ones like us. Goat's milk, if you like that taste, is much easier on our systems. Anyone else know more about this?

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 5:59 PM

Cow's milk is also not recommended for children under 1 year old. Goat's milk is higher in nutrients and lower in fat and digests much easier in our systems For 100's of years goats milk has been used for infants that were allergic to milk or were not nursed (for whatever reason). Of course, now we have all these formulas, but those who prefer something natural, often still use goats milk if they can. Goats milk is also used in soaps for a natural moisturizing soap. It is wonderful on the skin !

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 8:54 PM

HI Op!!

Just wanted to say Thank you I so enjoyed this info. I will look further into it and appreciate true interesting studies. I know I personally drink way too much mil I love it I drin only skim but so yummy.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:21 PM

Pulling a McDougall

It's interesting how information is or isn't released to the public. I have a friend who recently had a child. Her pediatrician recommended that the baby drink whole cow's milk now that she has been weaned. Now her and the baby are both drinking it and I am horrified.

I also have a friend who is studying chemistry at college, and shared with me the results of her lab where they simulated how our bodies rob our bones of calcium and potassium to neutralize the acidic state produced by digesting animal protein. Why isn't the pediatrician aware of this information? So I say yes, the Dairy industry has brainwashed most of the country. It's a crazy world.

I no longer eat animal protein because I am older and I want to keep my bones strong. I had been on the Atkins diet for a year or more when I broke my leg - go figure. I have also given my daughter the Fuhrman book 'Disease Proof Your Child' so that the next generation in our family will have a better chance at health despite the advertising power of the dairy board and processed food conglomerates.

And have you seen the amazing results autistic children are getting from eating gluten and casein free diets? (milk = casein)

I too recommend reading The China Study and Dr. Fuhrman's books.

Link is to a lecture by T. Colin Campbell. Take a moment and listen...

Link

Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 10:49 PM

thanks for resurrecting this thread. I remember reading it and thinking that the op was a vegan nut.

The goats milk suggestion makes sense- I had heard this.

I also heard the story of Jenny McCarthy getting her child off wheat and dairy and recovering mostly from autism.

I personally have cured my eczema by completely eliminating dairy and wheat. After doing Joel's high nutrient diet I can now do a little wheat here and there, but dairy remains poisonous to me.

If I eat any form of dairy I get puss filled bumps on my legs. For example if there is hidden butter in a dish at a restaruant, they next day I will have the puss filled bumps.

And no dairy, no bumps!

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 7:30 AM

FIRST: The Center for Science in the Public Interest (www.cspinet.org), a group beholden to noone, and which has had no qualms going after large companies (like Starbucks, for its fatty scones and lattes), industries (fast food and sodas), and yes, even the milk conglomerates (bu their, erm, "beef" there was whole milk in elementary school cafeterias)-- they place non-fat and one-percent milk third on their Ten Best Foods list (giving a nod to the soy alternative and low-fat yoghurt), along with, in order, sweet potatoes, grape tomatoes, broccoli, wild salmon, crispbreads, microwaveable brown rice, citrus fruit, diced butternut squash, and spinach/kale.

An example of what this group does comes from their latest article, bashing major Italian restaurant chains. They found even innocent-sounding items, like Romano's Macaroni Grill's spaghetti and meatballs dish, frightening: "Romano's rendition of this classic dish provides more than an entire day’s calories (2,430) and nearly three days’ worth of saturated fat—an astonishing 57 grams. If you like meat, you could eat two Macaroni Grill Tuscan Rib-Eye steak dinners and inflict less damage. Or you could eat six Quarter Pounders for the same effect on your waistline." They point out you need to jog an entire marathon to burn that many calories.

SECOND: As a doctoral candidate myself, top of my classes in statistics, I was laughing at the blatant reductionism, data manipulation, misrepresentation, and spurious correlations present in the China Study and Furhrman's works. (They might do a good job at pointing out how some nutrition studies are funded, but these authors then forget to acknowledge the vegan and animal rights groups they're tied with, or the simple fact that their publishers had PR machines at work to put their books on the best-seller list. Core evidence of the overall books themselves were not subject to rigorous peer review. It is its own money-making machine, just like most diet books are.

THIRD: How can one argue about the singular leviathan of the milk "industry," which is, let's not forget, a collection of farmers, who, hmmmm, produce vegetables. How you can claim that those who raise cows on farms are any more greedy of powerful than those who raise broccoli, oranges, grapes, and nuts, _you_ have been completely brainwashed.

FOURTH: To lay the blame, as some pp has done, for American waistlines on milk in general, completely ignores the simple calories-in versus calories-out notion of weight gain or loss. I lost half of my weight easily with absolutely NO particular concern given to fat grams or any other nutrient.

FIFTH: People are different. I drink lots of milk and, I'm ashamed to say, eat lots of cheese. I never have stomach problems (unless I binge on Oreos, etc.), have not had a cold in a decade, and have no allergies. In contrast, when I'm exercising regularly, I need a steady stream of protein (which the China Study derides while misclassifying studies it cites) to keep from getting dizzy. Not everyone has that problem. I also need high-fiber grains (which Campbell also doesn't like) to keep feeling full so I don't binge on truly utter crap. Moreover, since I'm on blood thinner medication (I have a genetic defect that produces aneurysms--this is not caused at all by anything I eat, but from whatever ancestors ate long before hormone treatment for cows), I have to keep my vitamin K intake to a minimum, which includes green veggies like spinach and broccoli.

PERSONAL CAVEAT: I was raised in San Diego, so I get as much sunshine as I possibly can. And even now, in the DC area, I'm the first in spring and last in falll to wear tshirt and shorts when running. So I get plenty of natural vitamin D to aid in calcium retention.

One pp pushes goat's milk. I have never seen any on grocery store shelves. Is there a good place to find some? I have always loved goat cheese, and my absolute favorite cheeses in the world are an array of Southern European sheep. So I'm curious to see what the milk tastes like.

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:24 AM

PP here. I forgot to de-anonymize myself.

-Karl
'vitamind'

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 11:27 AM

Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't.

What's great is that we have so much information available to us to make our own choices about our food and drink intake!

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:23 PM

French Paradox

I would like to mention the French, who I believe still live longer than we do. Yoghurt, cheese, butter, cream, etc. I think everything in moderation. Unless there is an allergy, I don't agree with eliminating dairy, but I'm glad we each have the right to make our own decision.

Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:48 PM

Whole, Unadulterated Dairy

I spent the last year of my life eating a high plant based, raw diet. After the first thirty days I went through two days of detox. It completely changed my life. I was convinced that a raw vegan diet was the way to go. After a while I started to incorporate cooked whole grains back into my diet and i still felt great. I thought I had the ideal diet. High raw, with whole grain vegan diet. I maintained this diet until i stumbled upon an article written by Mary Enig who is a proponent of raw, unpasteurized, whole dairy. She has spent the last fifty years of her life studying the benefits of lipids and saturated fats. She has also pointed out that in areas of the world where people eat raw, unpasteurized whole dairy products they have low cholersterol and are very lean. I now incorporated RAW butter from grass fed graising healthy cows and i have to stress the butter is NOT pasteurized or homogenized and I have NEVER felt better! I have great energy, I'm leaner, I feel great and think more clearly! It all comes down to what the U.S. has done to our food. People have been living off dairy and animal product for thousands and thousands of years. It is only since 1930 that people started suffering from high choleterstol etc. the pasteurization process destroys vital enzymes, proteins, vitamins and leaves behind a low quality product. The homogenization of dairy also creates a substance that forms plaque in our arteries.. hence... cholestrol. We are omnivores, not herbivores and we have been eating meat and animal products for centuries. Also, the whole Chinese comparison is not valid. Chinese do not eat much dairy but they do eat a lot of animal organs. They eat whole organs including eyes and scales of a fish or the shell on a shrimp they eat stomach parts... they actually have a high animal based diet but they have low cholesterol.. bottom line.. i don't trust anything that has gone through the FDA but I do trust food that is unadulterated from humans..

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 1:35 PM

You just can't blame the health of a whole country on one of two sources of food. The cholesterol levels in the US probably has more to do with cheeseburger consumption than pasteurized milk consumption, because most of Europe consumes high volumes of pasteurized milk too and their cholesterol levels are way lower overall.

For every sensational article about foods that are bad for you, there is another article with completely contradictory information. Don't buy into the hype - just make sure you have a well balanced diet. No real doctor would disagree (unless you have a medical condition that requires a special diet).

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 1:48 PM

This raises an interesting question. What does "well-balanced" mean and who is creating the definition. Historically, well balanced meant a lot of nits, berries and grass, right?

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 3:49 PM

Well balanced means getting enough of all the nutrients you need, and limiting things that are harmful. This can vary from person to person, but we all have the same basic needs. Personally I believe in eating anything I want in moderation, and not taking whole groups of food out of my diet because of what some fad article says. These "diet gurus" will write anything that will sell them books -the more dramatic the better. I'd rather ask my doctor what she thinks than get stuff out of a controversial book.

(also, historically humans ate meat, some dairy, fruits/veggies & nuts. We didn't eat a whole lot of grasses because our teeth didn't evolve as most grass-eaters teeth do)

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 4:01 PM

I think the pp meant "grains." At least I hope so. People eating parts of grasses other than the grains would be in seriously bad shape.

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 7:30 PM

My only thing with comparing what we've historically eaten and today is that while our families ate similar foods generations ago, their food was raised very differently. So, they really didn't eat the same foods we are eating today.

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 7:56 PM

I used to drink tons of milk. I drank more milk than anybody I knew. Then I read "Skinny Bitch" and I completely gave it up. And... nothing happened. I didn't feel any different. I didn't lose weight. It didn't seem to make any difference for me at all.

I also read another book that talks about how a lot of people are lactose intolerant. It's mostly people of Western European descent that can handle milk. Supposedly our bodies adapted when farming became the main source of our food.

But really, most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. But I don't think everybody is. And I really don't know what to think about this. I now eat cheese on pizza and stuff and occasionally have a bowl of cereal with milk, but am not consuming anywhere near what I used to. I'm very confused.

Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 5:37 PM

No I love dairy and I am losing weight. You think it could be the Soy industry out to destroy diary?

Sunday, July 26, 2009, 9:54 AM

Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 4:01 PM

Actually, the introduction of dairy to human diet is quite recent - agriculture and grains came along @ 10,000 years ago, a tiny blip in our evolutionary history. The gene that allows most northern Europeans and descendants to process lactose in dairy did not appear until 5000 years ago. Ability to tolerate lactose also does not translate into our bodies being able to thoroughly process dairy fats and proteins without overloading our arteries and livers.

Monday, July 27, 2009, 11:49 AM

It was a bit longer than 5,000 year ago. But regardless, we developed the ability to absorb nutrients from milk - and if dairy had a seriously negative effect on our health this gene would have never made it into our genetic makeup. Evolution favored the healthiest genes.

Monday, July 27, 2009, 1:55 PM

Study Detects Recent Instance of Human Evolution

New York Times

By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: December 10, 2006

"A surprisingly recent instance of human evolution has been detected among the peoples of East Africa. It is the ability to digest milk in adulthood, conferred by genetic changes that occurred as recently as 3,000 years ago, a team of geneticists has found.

The finding is a striking example of a cultural practice — the raising of dairy cattle — feeding back into the human genome. It also seems to be one of the first instances of convergent human evolution to be documented at the genetic level. Convergent evolution refers to two or more populations acquiring the same trait independently.

...."

Article goes on to mention the other convergent evolutions of this gene, including the one in most Europeans, estimated at 5-6000 years ago.

Evolution favors genes that help us up until we have passed on those genes to offspring. If the genetic disadvantages (say, cancer, atherosclerosis etc) don't usually show up until a person is in their 40s or 50s or up, the genes don't get weeded out. So lactose tolerance helped our ancestors considerably, especially in cold climates, or where local food was not abundant, but that still doesn't mean that dairy is healthy if you want to live past reproductive age. Or even for youngsters in an era when food is abundant for most of us rather than severely limited.

Link

Monday, July 27, 2009, 7:50 PM

I've never seen evidence that anyone has died from drinking milk. Just another tabloid scare story.

Monday, July 27, 2009, 10:26 PM

I believe the answer to the original question: "Has The Dairy Industry Brainwashed America?" can easily be seen by the replies to this thread.

It's always a good idea to question what a company claims about a product that it makes a profit from. Just be sure to look at more than one source and especially from those sources that don't profit from what they present. Think of how great cigarettes were for you - or how fantastic NutraSweet/Aspartame was for you.

Also, to use "evolution" as a basis for any kind of evidence for humans is rather silly as we haven't really existed long enough to provide enough data for evolution.

www.notmilk.com is an exhaustive collection of resources and studies on milk if you are interested.

Link

Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 12:57 PM

"Also, to use "evolution" as a basis for any kind of evidence for humans is rather silly as we haven't really existed long enough to provide enough data for evolution. "

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen.

Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 1:37 PM

clearly you haven't a clue about what evolution is.

Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:54 AM

"Also, to use "evolution" as a basis for any kind of evidence for humans is rather silly as we haven't really existed long enough to provide enough data for evolution. "

The amount that is being discovered about evolution from DNA studies alone is astounding, and fascinating. It's really well worth educating yourself on. For one thing, it will give you insight into the kind of diet humans along with other primates are adapted to eat. The human line split off from the chimpanzee/bonobo line @ 7 million years ago. They are our closest relatives, eating substantially fruit and greens, along with (chimps) small amounts of meat (less that 5% of calories estimated), while bonobos eat similarly, a little less animal protein, and most of it from insects etc.

It is clear that we have made some evolutionary changes to our digestive system in those 7 million years, but not so much that we could tolerate (on a lifetime scale) excessive animal protein. Humans do have a shorter and smaller digestive tract, indicating that we don't need as much processing time for our food - less fiber. (Best guess is that pre agriculture (10,000 yrs ago) humans ate @ 100 gms fiber/day) IMO this is because humans began to eat some cooked food relatively early - some evidence suggest as much as 350,000 years ago - before we were even Homo sapiens! We are also a very adaptable species, able to survive on a huge range of different food stuff.

It is important to remember that survive is very different from THRIVE. I know which I plan to do. Spend some time on PubMed looking through the research on the effect of high animal protein and high dairy intake. Ask yourself if dairy is something we are evolved to eat, why early dairy consumption is tied to increased risk of Type 1 diabetes (even in lactose tolerant).

Of course, if you're one of those that believes humans suddenly popped down on earth 6000 years ago, science of any kind, nutritional, evolutionary, biological or whatever probably isn't an issue for you.

Friday, July 31, 2009, 3:03 PM

PP - nice post!

You point out a very important fact - that our closest ancestors eat some meat, but it is only a few small percentage of their overall diet. I think this is where we are currently going wrong - as a society we are eating too much meat and dairy and not enough veggies. Our plates should be at least 2/3 filled with veggies, because that is where we should be getting the majority of our vitamins and minerals. How many restaurants follow this rule?

There is a big divide between people who eat cheeseburgers and fries from McDonalds all week long and no veggies, and those who eat small amounts of meat and dairy with lots of veggies. However, it is a much thinner line between those people who eat a little meat and dairy and those who eat none.

Who knows if meat and dairy are the real danger, or if it's because the kinds of people who eat them in large quantities are the same group of people who don't eat enough healthful veggies.

Friday, July 31, 2009, 3:31 PM

3:31 PM

At one point I did a study of my otherwise high veg/fruit/beans vegan diet and worked out that 3 oz per week of oysters, clams or salmon (ideally in rotation weekly) would make up for every single nutrient I was low on on the straight vegan diet. This works out to between 115 to 285 calories per week. At my intake of 1500 cal per day/ 10500 cal per week - this is @ 1-3% of calories for animal protein. Remarkably close to bonobo/chimp intake.

And fish/mollusks are definitely preferable to me than termites!

Still not convinced though that dairy is a good idea other than human breast milk for babies (and probably very young children as in many cultures breastfeeding goes on much longer than in most Western societies).

Saturday, August 1, 2009, 5:20 AM

There is no doubt that vegetables contain a high amount of nutrients, and give you more bang for the buck in that regard, calorie for calorie. However, you cannot compare apples and oranges, or milk and spinach. We are not the Chinese, and they are not us. To go to another culture and deduce their health advantages or disadvantages as opposed to us simply based on one food choice (ignoring our genetic makeup, the rest of our food choices, our activities, etc.) is ridiculous. The ONLY way to prove Furhman's conclusions is to conduct a large study of Americans, with one test group and one control group, where everythign is the same except the milk intake. Period. THAT is science. He is merely tossing around anecdotal information.

First of all, to quote the original poster, sodas are highly acidic and leech vitamin d. Well guess what? Sodas are often pointed to as one of the major contributors to our nation's obesity. We consume FAR more soda than the Chinese. And then, to use the eskimos as an example because their diet is mainly fish? Well, um, fish is not milk last I checked. And also, just how much daylight do they see on a consistent basis? (For that matter, how much daylight do Americans see compared to the average Chinese person?) And you cannot discount fish, anyway, since SARDINES have much higher bone-enchancing nutrients (calcium), calorie-for-calorie, than any vegetable.

This man is making millions of dollars giving everyone a "wonder cure" that (1) has not truly helped people lose weight any more than any other diet; (2) he represents as science, when it is NOT; (3) downplays any contrary information; and (4) merely tells us something that we already know (even the heavily industry-lobbied USDAdvises women to eat five portions of fruit and vegetables daily, and men NINE servings per day, 1/2 to 1/4 of our diets).

Friday, September 11, 2009, 9:16 AM

Tim Ferris in his new book, 4 Hour Body has documented measurable increases in short term fat loss from the removal of even small amounts of dairy in his diet. In his case he made no other changes for a week, and only removed the dairy from his coffee.

He suggests the removal of both fruit juice and dairy to help you burn fat. He does not say the same thing about Meat. Weight Watchers last year started moving people away from dairy.

Saturday, December 25, 2010, 9:30 AM

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