EMAIL THREAD

Oprah....

I seriously want to know people's thoughts about this woman.

Thu. Mar 27, 5:26pm

When women watch this show all the time they get all wrapped in trite stuff that has nothing to do with their actual life and the people and things that actually matter to them. What a waste.
But them again, my wife and I don't have a tv at all becasue we would rather play with our kids and hang out with each other with any spare time, so what do I know...

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 5:44 PM

So you don't watch, yet you judge...interesting...

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 5:48 PM

actually I judge because I don't watch...
read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman and you will understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

"A brilliant, powerful and important book." - The Washington Post

It is not really about what she says...

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 6:18 PM

Does that earlier opinion surprise you, coming from a man? Most of them despise Oprah and Dr Phil because they give us too much insight and get us to think about things that upset their happy happy homelife. Think about it - why would a man support the icon of female empowerment?

In any case, I like how Oprah is a fairly average person in a lot of respects - attractive but not stunning, smart but not genius, publicly struggles with her weight - and she gets it wrong sometimes. Like that autobiography author who turned out to be a total liar, giving away cars, and now the debunking of Airborne, a product she publicly backed. But she genuinely has a lot of heart, and you don't see that in too many tv personalities.

The downside: she presents an idyllic concept of sisterhood amongst women that just doesn't exist in reality. Even she is not immune to the odd moment of hypocrisy - she chose race over gender when choosing a political candidate to support.

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 6:29 PM

Oooh...I was with you until the very end, 6:29! I don't quite get the race over gender criticism, but that's okay.

I think she's great. She empowers people to change their lives for the better. She lives it and she's changing the world for the better. Go Oprah!

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 6:39 PM

Very interesting!! I watch what I can when I can...I work full time and I am about to go back to school full time, I was wondering bc my cousins adore her and I dont really know a lot about her. All I know is that she was backing a diet where you do a fat flush only drinking 500 calories a day and I wasn't very impressed with her judgment, considering she probably got permission from a doctor; and other women might not understand the entire diet but still go on it and hurt themselves terribly by NOT getting permission from their doctors. I hope that makes sense
I dont hate the woman...I think she does a lot for people and yes she does empower women...I just wanted to see the responses I would get! Thanks girls! And guy...

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 7:25 PM

When she came "on the scene" twenty plus years ago, there really wasn't an empowering figure on TV that women could easily relate to. There was Sally Jesse Raphael and Phil Donohue, but they were more like an older aunt or uncle than pro-women champions. (Let's not even TALK about Geraldo Rivera!)
Oprah has many flaws, but her sustainability can be attributed to the fact that she gives women hope and the courage to believe in themselves. In a TV world surrounded by extreme makeover shows, she makes us believe we can do it- whatever "it" is.
It may seem silly that one woman can represent so much, but despite her many flaws and sometimes annoying delivery, she's done a lot in terms of inspiration, charity work, and motivation. Good for her!

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 9:01 PM

I'm a woman and I think Oprah sucks!

Oprah is just annoying and she is racist. I watch Dr. Phil occaisionally if I am flipping stations I will tune in for a few minutes, but the whining people get on my nerves! Stop whining, do the right thing, get over it, and grow up. That simple. Same goes with the thread regarding fat people. Stop whining about your weight and do something about it. Get off the sofa and workout.

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 9:38 PM

...

I was with you 6:29 until the end too... I personally think Oprah is great. I rarely get to watch her but I love her magazine and when I do get a chance to watch her show I enjoy it. But being in medical school it is difficult to get home by 5 to watch. Either way, Oprah publicly stated that just as she didn't pick a candidate because of her gender, she didn't pick one because of her race. Don't be so superficial... I'm pretty sure she knows how to formulate her own opinion without being influenced by race. *So I guess you will probably think every black person who votes for Obama will only vote for him because he's black. So I guess every white person will only vote for a white candidate huh? All seems racist to me!] And to the person that said Oprah was a racist... I kind of think that was funny... What would give you that opinion...? I think you must be one [a racist] yourself. Sad.

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 9:50 PM

I like the Oprah show because I have discovered so many great and healthful tips over the years. I also like the show b/c it is usually smut free..no guests trying to figure out which of the eight men on the stage is the father of her baby! I have truly enjoyed Oprah herself over the years as well often coming to her defense as so many people I know have issues w/ her building schools and helping African childeren and not Americans...well she started w/ nothing and was abused and I feel that good for her helping her people and who she refers to as her daughters I mean she earned it, on the same note many people here in the states have been helped by her charity's and certainly have been encouraged to read by her. I feel that she has a lot of good qualities. I like her for that. The only issue is I do not agree w/ whom she wants for president. The truth is I wish all "show biz/actors" would stay out of the polotics headlines...that is not there job , but that is a whole different thread.

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 9:55 PM

I'm 6:29...if "hypocrisy" was too strong a word, perhaps "inconsistency" would have been better? I heard her explanation for supporting BO rather than HC, but I interpreted it as spin - so that she wouldn't be overtly offending her entire fan base. It was a surprise to see someone who has devoted so much of her airtime and resources to women's issues, women's growth, women's potential for decades *not* back the best-qualified female candidate that we're likely to produce in our lifetime, given how few women are willing to take on the overbearing old-boy political network. It doesn't make sense.

Generally speaking, I like that she makes mistakes because it reminds us from time to time that she may be rich and powerful and famous, but she's as human and occasionally naive as the rest of us. This particular "flaw", however, says more about the subtleties of her character and what she truly stands for - which is what she's selling, after all - and is therefore a much bigger deal than hawking a bum book.

Having said that, it won't stop me from watching her shows or giving to her Angel Network (hm, I wonder if Bill is sorry he praised her foundation in his book last year).

Thursday, March 27, 2008, 10:35 PM

6:29, WTF? So just because Oprah is black you think she chose Obama over Clinton? Couldn't it just be the simple matter of her preferring his politics over hers? I think it is bullshit that this race issue even comes up. So what, as women we should all just choose Clinton just because she is a woman? Now that would be discrimination wouldn't it?

Friday, March 28, 2008, 2:59 AM

HC is hardly the "best-qualified female candidate that we're likely to produce in our lifetime" what bubble are you living in? If thats the best this country can do we are in sad trouble. I for one would love in the next election to see Condie Rice run for office, now there is a really intelligent, qualified woman.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 3:03 AM

10:35 - you're right about how she's devoted her airtime - but, that is, in part, b/c her viewers are 99.9% female. But, in general, she seems to be about the empowerment of people. And she doesn't strike me as someone who would back someone just b/c they're a woman, or black or whatever. Ha - I speak as if I know her!

10:35 seems to discount her simply b/c she's on television. There's no convincing him otherwise, but it is more than what she says, she DOES. She's not like half the politicians anymore screaming about morals & values and then having a $10,000 hooker on the side.

And she uses her mediums - television, print and air (she really is taking over the universe-ha) - to get people to discover their purpose, live with intention, etc. She has her fluff shows, but those are fun, too. I just love me that Nate Berkus. I want him to come to my house!

Friday, March 28, 2008, 9:21 AM

On the political issue, she'd be lambasted for supporting either candidate....if she was supporting HC then people would knock her for not supporting an African-American candidate.

I think sometimes she can come off a bit preachy, but I'm not going to fault someone for trying to make people better when every other show (even Dr. Phil whom I used to really like on her show) goes for the easy, white trashy, chair throwing, who's your baby daddy, stop my kid from dressing like a tramp, I'm banging your brother and I'm going to tell you on nat'l TV genre. Agree or disagree with her opinions, give her some credit for raising the bar.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 10:43 AM

Remember The Color Purple movie and then look at Oprah magazine cover.
She looks younger now than she did in 1985 !
How much work has she had done ? ?

Friday, March 28, 2008, 10:51 AM

Have you seen her recently without makeup and not airbrushed? Big difference from the covers!!! I don't think it's "work" so much as the skills of a graphic artist

Friday, March 28, 2008, 11:25 AM

10:51 What does that have to do with the OP's question? First it was a movie, they made her look the part. I am not a big fan of Oprah but even I have to admit the woman is beyond generous and does a world of good for so many people. I just think its to bad that she chooses to do so much good in other countries then her own. I think our country goes overlooked a lot of times. People still don't realize that there really are starving children in our own backyards, how about helping our own first.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 11:28 AM

Oprah racist?

Okay...whoever called Oprah racist needs to be flogged. Oprah cannot win for losing - for some in the African-American community she is not "black enough" for some members of the Caucasian community she is "too black". What are you using for your basis to call Oprah racist? That comment really burns me up!

As far as Oprah supporting BO over HC...she went with the person who inspired her. And Oprah is someone who believes that hard work coupled with inspiration and surrounding yourself with the right people can lead to success. I'm sorry, but nothing about HC inspires me - she comes off as cold, distant, and part of the old boy network herself.

Oprah has done more to raise awareness for so many issues than most celebrities. She could have used her status to promote herself, but she makes sure that when she finds talent, a worthy cause, someone deserving of an extra push, she puts her money where her mouth is. How many people here can say that?

I think what it boils down to is that we forget Oprah is human. She is a real person and will make mistakes. But if the majority of what she does is positive, uplifting, and helps makes the world a better place I say put your jealousy aside and give the woman her props! That means men too - come out of the caveman days and stop relying on your p*nis to get you through life.

Ugh! This whole thread just has me riled up!

Friday, March 28, 2008, 11:28 AM

I'm a woman, and I don't like her. I actually find her very trite and superficial. The audience members drive me crazy too.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 11:28 AM

I know this is a bit OT, but can I just say that the people who support Oprah for backing Obama seem to be doing it because you feel she's "right". How about if she was supporting Clinton or McCain for that matter, would you still think she was so inspirational in that area? Is she "right" because it's a matter of convenience that you support Obama as well? I personally don't care who she supports because if I'm an informed adult I won't rely on her to make up my mind. The fact that people are guided to support a candidate because someone else does is the height of laziness.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 12:17 PM

All I have to say is...atleast she isnt like the ladies on The View!!! If I ever had to go on that show I would shoot myself.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 12:18 PM

To be criticized for helping a human being - no matter where they live - is such a fascinating thing for me.

And, oh Lord, 12:18 - I couldn't agree more!!

Friday, March 28, 2008, 1:02 PM

I love both shows. Whoopi rocks!

Friday, March 28, 2008, 3:12 PM

misslizzi's 2 cents

I liked Oprah...once upon a time....

In reality, this whole hope and inspiration crap is how she makes money. She knows how to tap into and exploit the needs and desires of women who so badly need her message.

More importantly, she is a powerful force behind the voters who are demanding/expecting a hollow presidential candidate who offers false hope, phoney inspiration and supposed change. It's a dangerous game that will ultimately result in yet another Republican president....

Is it ultimately Oprah's fault though that she has this power over people?

No. It's the fault of the needy.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 3:32 PM

misslizzi's other 2 cents to 2:59 AM

Not sure if it would be discrimination if women all voted for women. Not sure if it would be feminism, either.

But a person's gender OR race as a basis for a vote or an anti-vote would be a foolish thing.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 3:35 PM

I would prefer Oprah in office over Obama or Clinton, and I don't like her !
And the twit who suggested Condie Rice ??? I am hoping that the planet will open up and swallow Rice ...... hmmm wouldn't that be wonderful.

Oprah has tapped into a niche, and it works for her, she makes a LOT of money, and I would say that she has is very accomplished, but, I still don't like her.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 3:57 PM

I LOVE Oprah! However I am discerning and do not watch all her shows. I've learned a lot of good information, like how to avoid rape, using the gift of fear, etc etc. I think some of her shows are pure fluff and some are very informative.

I loved her cross country trip with Gail and was inspired to make a similar trip with my husband. It was one of the most fun vacations of my life, and in the end didn't have to do with Oprah at all.

Pick and choose her shows. Some are better than others.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 4:00 PM

I hadn't watched Oprah for a long time, but my mother does and when she came to visit last year I set up TIVO to record her show. Now I find myself watching it from time to time, mostly the health shows which I've found to be very informative, especially Dr. Oz, and the fashion shows because I am clueless. While I have a tendency to delete the celebrity shows without watching them, I applaud her decision to keep to inspirational themes rather than exploit people in their misery and/or stupidity like many of the other talk shows. She's a successful self-made business woman and she has the right to spend her money any way she likes or support any politician she wants to, the same as you or I. She is incredibly generous to her audience, her fans, her country, and the world and I have a hard time understanding why some people are so critical of her. She seems like a pretty nice person to me.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 4:03 PM

Annoying.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 5:20 PM

Annoyingling rich, well-rounded, insightful, grounded, and generous! I wish I were that annoying.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 5:37 PM

I know...it's just so annoyingly refreshing to see someone use their power and influence for good. Who does she think she is.

Friday, March 28, 2008, 5:48 PM

Oprah should be ashamed of herself:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20187678,00.html

Deuteronomy 7:26
"You shall not bring an abomination into your house, and like it come under the ban; you shall utterly detest it and you shall utterly abhor it, for it is something banned.

Deuteronomy 22:5
"A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 3:39 PM

Yay, let's all gang up on the Jesus Freak!!! Haven't had a good "shove your god crap where the sun don't shine" spats in months.

Who does Oprah think she is, offending St. Deuter anyway.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 3:45 PM

The OP asked what people thought of Oprah, this story is in the news, any America from 100 years ago would have thrown up if they heard something like this was going to be news in their country. Girl that is a guy has a baby - you're defending?
Where are you on crack whores?
Sorry morals aren't mainstream anymore...

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 4:02 PM

Sorry, let me amend sp:

The OP asked what people thought of Oprah, this story is in the news, any American from 100 years ago would have thrown up if they heard something like this was going to be news in their country. Girl that is a guy has a baby - you're defending that?
Where are you on crack whores?
Sorry morals aren't mainstream anymore...

- Oh and pardon me for quoting the 3000 year old world's most popular book in regard to my opinions - I didn't know that was regarded as "god crap"

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 5:44 PM

Thanks for the link. I am planning to watch it now. It is a fascinating story. I know a couple of FTM trangendered people. I wonder what they think about this story.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 7:04 PM

I really like Oprah. I am often inspired with what I see on her show. I feel that as a woman I can relate to her and her struggles...(being rich, dealing with being a woman and overcoming stereotypes). Not everyone is going to love her, but I know that many people respect her.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 7:11 PM

hmmmm...

http://www.albertmohler.com/commentary_read.php?cdate=2005-11-29

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 8:01 PM

pp, why would we care what Albert Mohler says? We are not all Christian.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 8:14 PM

we are not all non-Christian either...

is this more inside your box ?

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-05-10-oprah_x.htm?POE=LIFISVA

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 8:24 PM

Started the thread

I started this thread...just because I wanted to know how people would react to a woman who is so powerful and so rich; wondering if she offended or was praised....I like Oprah...she has a big heart, and so do I, if I had as much money as her I would be doing the same things she is...or probably more. She isnt a bad person, and I do not believe she is arrogant...I am a white female and I do not believe she is racist.

I have been very amused by some answers and also very taken back by some...some people have a lot of nerve to be so cruel... Let it go...its going to be ok.

I am also a Christian...and I am not going to judge Oprah..its not my place. I just wanted to know how people felt. Only God can judge. Not me.

Anyway I am done...take it or leave it. Hopefully I am not verbally abused for speaking my opinion.

Wednesday, April 2, 2008, 10:13 PM

My beef is that people on here quote the Bible as if it means anything to other people. It means something to you because you're Christian, but what if I am Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, or any other religion??? I can't stand this "It's my faith, so I'm right and everyone else is wrong" mentality. Your bible may be just another book to me so your quotes have no merit with me.

That being said, I do have a quasi faith/spiritualism but I don't lock myself into one, believing that it's right above all others. If God put us all on this planet together, I don't think he meant for us to judge each other.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 9:27 AM

Beef

I can understand your beef...
But if you quoted Ghandi or Buddha or Mohammed - I wouldn't be offended because I know they had a lot that was good to say that has stood the test of time because there is a lot of truth in much of their philosophies (not THE truth in my opinion...) These people are recognized heavy hitters on what is the good life so I give them some respect.
Judaism and Islam are even more strict on this issue so no help there, but if you found some interesting quote by Buddha or Cicero I would not say that, "that has no merit" to me - I would look to see if it there was value in it.
As to not judging - that is a concept you are borrowing from Jesus, but it means not to write someone off as ultimately destined for hell, not to refrain from figuring out whether their actions are good or bad - that can certainly be deduced.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 10:38 AM

Anyone who needs to quote some spiritual icon, usually from man-interpreted third-hand sources, is just incapable of making their own arguments. If you hold a belief because your god says so according to mainly allegorical books, you are a brainwashed sheep. If you're using the tenets of organized religion to feel morally superior, then you're a sniveling mini-tyrrant.

I think Oprah is a positive societal influence. I think her topic today about a gender-bending pregnancy is revolting and will flip the channel to Ellen. It has nothing to do with any god or religion, and I'm sorry she's giving the stage to an attention-seeking freak.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 10:56 AM

Gender bending pregnancy

It was very strange to wrap my head around, and I am extremely liberal, all I have to say is good for them. They obviously love each other and their family very much, and I can understand they wish to tell their tale vs the tabloid version. Live and let live is all I have got to say. I hope they can shield their child from the scrutiny of society.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 11:09 AM

Wow, what in my last post warranted that tirade?
I think it is interesting that quoting highly regarded works of literature is being a sheep, but flicking channel to channel is intelligent rebellion. So reading books and quoting them makes you a dummy, but discriminating channel surfing makes you smart?? Let's burn all books then. Haven't you ever read anything worth quoting ? - or do you think we are better off figuring out the meaning of life in a vaccum?
I am not feeling morally supeior, my problem with Oprah is that a bunch of middle class women bow at her throne despite the fact that she is a guru of materialism and success spirituality - which isn't spirituality at all. I bet a lot of PT's just don't think about what she is really saying - that is all.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 11:15 AM

Baaaa baaaa...call me a sheep, but I think she's great and I love the show. She does great things, she's purposeful and encourages those who watch to live a life with purpse and integrity - and to look good doing it, but only if you can afford it ;)

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 11:35 AM

Started the thread...

That's exactly my point....What I was trying to get across was that I am a Christian, and I have my faith and my beliefs and I respect that others have their own too. I am not here to offend anyone or judge anyone, in any faith God is the only one who can make the decision to judge... You know what I mean?

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 2:07 PM

9:27 here

I think I may have to define my point a little better. I'm not looking to "dis" anyone's religion. I respect anyone's beliefs and don't hold mine superior over theirs just because they're mine. But when you quote something like that, let's face it, you're trying to teach a lesson about what you think is right. You're entitled to think it's right, but when we're talking about Oprah and someone basically condemns her because of her show's subject matter, that's preachy.

Maybe it's just rebellion to my rote Catholic upbringing, but I believe in the church of common sense. Be nice. Don't hurt people. Respect differences. If it doesn't affect you directly, MYOB. I would think those are core to any religion.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 2:25 PM

5:44, is this man who's having a baby going to be moving into your house anytime soon? Then what difference is it going to make in your life?

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 2:28 PM

2:28 Good question. TV personalites (unfortuantely) shape the culture and people's ideas about what is right and wrong, they have a huge impact on our country and it's values. When the country was founded people had a lot of clear ideas about what was right and wrong (I think that was a god thing) - I know that now America's religion is "just be nice to everyone" - that is not a philosphy with much depth or guts.
In my opinion Oprah is assisting in the moral decline of our nation's culture (that effects me) but giving the spotlight to someone who chooses a path which would be considered highly immoral by Judiaism, Islam and Christianity.

Bottom line I don't like the fact that we are taking our cues on morality from entertainers - people who are paid to tell you whatever will amuse you (a-muse is latin for "not think") - that is why American culture is the most shallow on earth. We used to be a nation of readers. whoops

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 3:06 PM

2:25 I appreciate your perspective and tone:

The reason I put that quote on is b/c:
1. Can you see what stong terms are used for this type of behavior in a book that is regarded as holy by three of the great world religions?
2. You take for granted that people should "Respect differences" and everyone should see that that is self evident - What I am trying to say is that many people would consider it strongly "self evident" that this is unspeakably immoral behavior
3. I wanted to spark a more interesting thread here - which I think I did - got everyone's juices flowing - no? ;)

I understand your philosophical leanings, but religion is interesting b/c it attempts to deal with nearly impossibly complex issues of life, not general ideas of how we can get along. I don't think your slogans would actually fit into many religions at all because religions are not mainly about how to get along with each other.

Why do I get worked up about it? - for a similar reason that you got angry in your 10:56 post - I think someone is very wrong about something very important. :)

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 3:25 PM

My .02 cents ... for what it's worth

Years ago when she first came on the scene with her talk show it was totally different than it was today, it was both informative and entertaining. She dared go where no other talk show host had gone in terms of topics, getting responses to get a rise out of her audience, etc. Now, I just think she is so self righteous as a person. She talks down to people at times and thinks only her opinion matters. I also am one that does not agree at all with her showing publicly her support of Obama. That's like any other famous female campaigning with Hillary just because she's a woman. Whether she likes it or not it made her look like she's racist, choosing him, made it look like it was because he was black and she is as well. That may not have been her intent but I think each of you knows that is sure as hell what it looks like.
On the other subject of her charity, the only real charities you hear about with her benefit Africa (look at the school she built there!) but we have tons of homeless folks, misplaced children, run down schools, etc right here in the USA. Yes, she "earned" the money and she can use it however she chooses but she has to own up to the fact that it may not make her look very good in the eyes of some of us less fortunate americans who know others even less fortunate who could sure as heck use the help.
I just don't enjoy her show anymore (I think she's too obsessed with that Doc Oz guy too- yes he has some good tips but he's repetitive and who says he's the expert on all things healthy and that only his opinions count?)
Like I said, bottom line... her show USED to be entertaining, now I think it's just a crutch for bored housewives to sit and listen to Oprah being self righteous and an opinionated person.
By the way I'm a female, if you couldn't tell from the tone of my post...

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:06 PM

Well, 2:28, that pregnant genderbender can be in anyone's living room if you turn your tv or subscribe to certain magazines like People. Have fun explaining to to your kids.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:14 PM

I am so confused about the pregnant man...sorry my mind is friend by bills and insurance and crap like that..please explain!!

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 4:41 PM

Multiple answers to multiple posts, not in any particular order:

1. They may be 3 great religions, but only to people who consider them "great". Longstanding, yes, but that doesn't make it truth. .If one is an atheist, then religion promotes basic beliefs anyone should stand behind. And I'm not shallow because I live an honest life but don't label it with a big religious stamp.

2. When our country was founded, people also believed in owning other people and that women could be witches...all in the name of religion. They also believed that blood letting released infection and promoted wellness. I'd like to think that our country has evolved into higher thinking. Sometimes that means you have to take the good with the bad.

3. No one is being forced to watch a transgender man have a baby, so it's only in your living room if you choose it to be. And while I believe it to be subject matter for adults, if my child caught a glimpse of it and asked a question I'd answer it honestly. I have discussed homosexuality with my children because they see same gender families in our community. It doesn't mean they'll be gay, and if they are, so what? The world is made of many types of people, and as long as they live within the confines of the law, I don't care who they sleep with, what they want to look like, or how publicly they want to proclaim it.

We can't delude ourselves into thinking that all of this stuff never existed until recently. It's just become more acceptable to put it out there, which is healthier than someone living the "right" life on the surface but sneaking around or denying who they really want to be. I bet the man on my street growing up would be a whole lot happier now than 30 years ago when we watched from a tree as he cleaned his house in his wife's clothes........

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 7:51 PM

Where have I been? I had no idea a trans gender man was having a baby

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 8:13 PM

7:51

Very enlightening.

I would love to hear your response to / rebuttal of my careful responses to your assertions instead of just "riffing" off concepts though.

I know, I am a bit verbose... apologies, I like debate. I know that we got off to a rough start, but I do appreciate your willingness to chat here

- good times.

3:25

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 8:36 PM

It looks bad to help another human being?? So interesting...

Regarding the 'only charities you hear about '...she raised money and helped construct entire neighborhoods and outfit entire homes for people in New Orleans following the hurricane.

Thursday, April 3, 2008, 11:49 PM

8:36 I'm not the person you were chatting with before, but since you asked...and all in the spirit of open debate :)
In response to your points...
Again, this all goes back to perspective. Spirituality depends on the individual. What if I , personally, don't regard those books as "holy"? What if I don't believe in "holy"? If it's a "believe what everyone else does or you're wrong" thing then isn't that just spiritual bullying? It smacks of middle school peer pressure where you go along because "everyone else is doing it".

2. Why does it have to be labeled "immoral" simply because you don't agree with it? Can't it just be, "it's not my thing, but more power to them if it's their thing"? This person is still, reproductively, a woman and has the right to conceive like anyone else would. What is immoral about two people bringing a life into the world and raising that child in love? A biological man and woman aren't a guarantee for a happy life, I see that everyday with my students. If you find it immoral on your moral spectrum, then you don't have to particpate in it.

Friday, April 4, 2008, 9:32 AM

What is true ?

9:32 - Open debate is good. thanks :)
You seem to be basing your understanding of life "Spirituality depends on the individual. " on a world with no truth. Is there anything that is universally true - Is rape, child abuse, genocide wrong? is excellent love, pouring out your life to help other right?
If so then you are right it is a "matter of perspective" - which perspecitive is closer to what is the truth, but if there is no truth at all, I guess we can't even argue or assert anything...

-8:13

You put, "immoral" in quotations - so is there no such thing as immoral in your opinion? ...but on the other hand you seem to think that we should all agree that "spiritual bullying" is immoral?

You want me to know the truth of what you are saying because the truth is important, yet you seem to say that there is not truth. No reality of right and wrong that is true for all.

[If scripture IS truly writtten by God as it ubiquitously asserts, then it is an awesome guide for life and behavior (and so useful in this question) - if not in reality written by God then it is a horrible pack of lies - one or the other - there is no middle ground]

?

Friday, April 4, 2008, 10:27 AM

7:51
1. "then religion promotes basic beliefs anyone should stand behind." - not accurate. If you look into any major religion you will see that they each outline a plan for life that is HIGHLY incompatible with the others. Name the core belief of the major religions and you will find that they are actually things that only people in that religion would stand behind. There is no religion that is : "everyone be nice to each other".
2. "I'd like to think that our country has evolved into higher thinking." Not accurate. If you base it by your standard of niceness - today our country is full of WAY more per capita - murder, rape, interpersonal violence... than in our first 50 years - We are being a lot more "mean" to each other now. Just look at the murder rate! Or the violence in the cities! I bet several people were murdered as I was typing this. Not higher thinking. Perhaps our older ideas were closer to the truth.
3. "No one is being forced to watch " - true, but that does not change the responsibility factor. Oprah has become an authority - a voice that is heard and listened to so with great power comes resposibility to weild it well- When McDonald's came up with the Supersize concept it was irresponsible and they knew it - no one is being forced to eat it, but they were the #1 restaurant and on a mission to manipulate an obese nation into eating more. America called them on it and they changed.

-. "all of this stuff [...] existed [before]" Not accurate - there was nothing like this in human history until the 1930s. twisted behavior - yes, this stuff - no.

-3:25

Friday, April 4, 2008, 10:56 AM

How about we all get off of the theological stuff and talk more about the subject. Is that ok? I dont want any fights started.

Friday, April 4, 2008, 11:58 AM

The subject is Oprah and what you think about her - it's really a complicated question - your worldview has to do with it.

Do you like or dislike her for a specific reason?

Friday, April 4, 2008, 12:06 PM

I think we're having a reasonable debate, and I'm definitely not looking for a fight. Hope that's how it's being taken!

I guess this can be a difficult subject matter to debate via email because I find myself writing something then deleting it because I look back and I've written 4 paragraphs so things get left out. I don't discount the value or the Bible or any holy book, or religion for that matter. I appreciate its value to people and how it can serve as a guide and support. I would just like to hear one person who is a part of organized religion say that another person can be equally moral to them despite a difference in lifestyle and beliefs. And I do believe that things can be considered immoral, of course. But I don't think you can equate rape or murder with the actions of someone who is simply living his life within the confines of the law and not asking anything of anyone. And just because one doesn't like the topic, should the topic not be made available on TV for others to learn from? (Sorry, I'm kind of bantering between two posts!) The media (Oprah included) has a responsibility to pursue and discuss topics that are in our society. The news would be awfully boring if they had to pick and choose topics based on offending someone. At some point, everyone would be offended by something eventually.

And there is a religion of "be nice to everyone". It's my "church" and I live it everyday. Yes, there are categorical differences in religions, but the core of most of them is peace, love and human kindness. So if I'm living those on my own, why do I need to be a part of a church for those qualities to be recognized?

And there was some pretty twisted stuff going on during the Renaissance. Google it.

Kind of hard making sure I touched all bases, and I'm sure I didn't!!

Friday, April 4, 2008, 1:07 PM

I still don't like her, but she does some good work.

Today's show about puppy mills .... I hope no one EVER buys another dog from a pet store again.

Friday, April 4, 2008, 1:59 PM

My parents, against all of our advice, bought a pet store dog and the poor thing ended up having epilepsy and some horrilbe immune disease. And not to speak ill of the canine dead, but he was mean as a snake. After being on steroids and chemo from the local hospital (which I find ridiculous) he died at 6. Never ever get a puppy mill dog!!!

Friday, April 4, 2008, 2:05 PM

Adopt a Pet

I WILL NEVER buy a puppy period...there are too many dogs and cats in shelters being eufinzed everyday bc no one will adopt them...its sad. The two dogs my husband and I have were given to us by family members who breed. Puppy mills are terrible and the people who run them are scum. It breaks my heart what they do to those dogs. Good for Oprah to have an episode on this subject!

Friday, April 4, 2008, 2:32 PM

Thanks 1:07...

(no not looking for a fight either - just enlightenment. I appreciate other perspectives - even if I disagree)

I certainly believe that people outside of my religious group can be more moral than I am based on general standards of human morality - the point of Christianity is that none of us can measure up to the high standards that God has made us capable of thus the need for the cross (not preaching - just answering the question)

I am not equating it with murder - I am stating that three main world religions would actually reserve HARSHER language for this than murder

"should the topic not be made available on TV for others to learn from?" You mean we should "be exposed to"? - I personally don't think we "learn" from TV - otherwise couch potatoes would be smarter and PhD students would watch TV

"The media (Oprah included) has a responsibility to pursue and discuss topics that are in our society." No, in this case they are actually creating a new discussion topic and I don't think the use of TV entertainers is to help us to discuss things as a country since TV is not something you can have a converstation with -you are just being amused.

"but the core of most [religions] is peace, love and human kindness" name a major religion that that is the real core of? (religion seeks to answer other questions than "should we try to get along with each other" - otherwise it really does not qualify, every child knows that we ought to "try to get along" - that is not a real question)

As to Oprah, I fear that her powerful influence is not a positive one, she is advocating materialist new age lite - not just because of what she says but mostly because she is a TV ENTERTAINER - her job is to get people to sit down and watch TV as well as buy the stuff she is selling on the commericals & magazine - that is her job and she is good at it.

thanks for the thoughts :)

Friday, April 4, 2008, 3:18 PM

I CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE CARE THIS MUCH. Some threads on nutrition, exercise, and real people's personal problems are nearly empty, but this one's bursting at the seems? This is what's wrong with Americans. Get your priorities straight people!

Saturday, April 5, 2008, 9:40 AM

So I should care more that my jeans are a little tight than anything else going on in the world? Many of us are just engaging in some intelligent conversation...nothing harmful there. Don't like this thread, don't read it.

Saturday, April 5, 2008, 6:48 PM

Getting back to the original question....

I truly admire Oprah. She was born two states over around the same time as me. We are different races.

She's a human being with great heart and great foibles. I admire her for all she has done. She has changed her medium (TV talk) from mindless entertainment to something that has moments of true value for her watchers.

I rarely watch her show but I read the O magazine which has some major fluff but has real content that I find useful.

When you think about the mediums she works in (TV and Magazines) I think she has caused major shifts and raised the bar for others in those mediums.

Sunday, April 6, 2008, 10:51 AM

Started the Thread

Im ending this...I found out some stuff the other day that makes me despise this woman beyond belief. Have your own opinion if you want..but this woman disgusts me.

Monday, April 7, 2008, 12:13 PM

If you are, in fact, the OP, didn't you state in your other posts that you are a Christian and you don't judge people - it's not your place? Very interesting...

Monday, April 7, 2008, 12:17 PM

interesting point 12:17 Not the OP, but can I mention: - people are always tossing around this way off "don't judge" / "you shouldn't judge" concept like it is connected to Christianity - it isn't:
#1 below is what Jesus meant by, "Don't judge lest ye be judged" - not #2.

1. Judge their immortal soul as damned and write them off
vs.
2. Evaluate actions, behavior & character as wrong

Jesus was very "judgemental" toward cowardly, hypocritical, materialist, or BEHAVIORS - (remember the Pharisees ? or that whip in the temple thing ?) - Shouldn't we all be evaluative of peoples actions (especially those in powerful positions)?

that said - you are right "despise this woman beyond belief" doesn't sound like the OP to me.

Monday, April 7, 2008, 1:38 PM

okay, fine 12:13 (OP?) I'll bite - what did you find ?

Monday, April 7, 2008, 2:09 PM

I know, I'm dying to know what disgusts you about Oprah!!

Monday, April 7, 2008, 2:33 PM

I REALLY started the thread

I didn't post that..I will admit that I have heard some very disappointing things coming from this woman, I dont love her, but I dont dislike her either...she is just a person, no matter who she is or how much money she has. As a Christian, she has said some things that have disappointed me greatly (because they differ GREATLY from my beliefs) I just hope people realize they need to find out who they truly are.
AS for the person who posted "acting" like they were me...give it a break. You are not funny and you have no idea who I am.
I hope I didnt come across as rude or judgemental...I am not trying to be. I promise! : )

Monday, April 7, 2008, 2:38 PM

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